TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#184801: Apr 26th 2017 at 2:22:49 AM

It's funny how all of a sudden public political figures giving paid speeches is a problem right around the time a black man and a woman started getting in on it.

Gee, I wonder what's going on there.

[up][up] He could be giving the proceeds to a children's cancer charity and it'd still be used as ammunition. He could be paid to promote a kitten's orphanage and someone, somewhere would take it as a sign that he's an out-of-touch liberal.

The mere fact that Obama is still breathing is going to tick conservatives off.

edited 26th Apr '17 2:24:38 AM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184802: Apr 26th 2017 at 2:27:07 AM

[up] Hell I'm pretty sure people were giving Obama crap for simply enjoying himself after leaving office. I don't know why him going kite-surfing is a big deal, but it is for some people.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184803: Apr 26th 2017 at 2:47:34 AM

It's funny how all of a sudden public political figures giving paid speeches is a problem right around the time a black man and a woman started getting in on it.

Gee, I wonder what's going on there.

And you don't think people would get pissed off if Bernie did the same thing?

I mean trying to pivot this to racism is kind of irritating since most of the criticism right now is coming from our own side. It's like you can't criticize Obama without being a racist.

Can people call out Obama when he messes up too?

Look, Dems have an image problem right now. They are widely seen as the party of Wall Street. Our last Dem president taking 400 K from Wall Street for a speech is not a good look.

It doesn't matter whether you think it shouldn't matter because it does.

edited 26th Apr '17 2:52:49 AM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184804: Apr 26th 2017 at 2:53:23 AM

I mean people criticized Hillary for her Wall Street speeches. Obama is a big boy. He knew what to expect.

It would be legitimately sexist if Obama was given a pass but Hillary wasn't.

If you're going to hold Hillary to those standards then it's fair all Democrats should be held to those standards.

edited 26th Apr '17 2:55:16 AM by MadSkillz

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#184805: Apr 26th 2017 at 2:56:59 AM

[up]So, it's OK to use thinly-veiled racism to power vitriolic condemnation against a capitalistic system of earning because sexism was used last time?

edited 26th Apr '17 2:57:29 AM by Euodiachloris

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184806: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:10:16 AM

So, it's OK to use thinly-veiled racism to power vitriolic condemnation against a capitalistic system of earning because sexism was used last time?

????

Is it racist to make a legitimate complaint against Obama? Is it sexist to make a legitimate complaint against Hillary?

Don't take money from Wall Street. It's simple.

People attack the Democratic Party as a whole for doing the same thing.

Can legitimate complaints have racist motives depending on who is saying it? Yes but that doesn't invalidate the criticism.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:12:32 AM by MadSkillz

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#184807: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:16:35 AM

What's worse? Wall Street or the military industrial complex? Cause Bernie has been in Lockheed's pocket for years.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184808: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:24:48 AM

[up] Curiously, most people don't give him much crap over this.

It's probably because the 2008 mortgage crisis threw the problems in the financial industry into the public eye, therefore automatically tainting anyone who associates with them. The military-industrial complex otoh chugs along in the background.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184809: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:29:37 AM

[up][up]It depends on which you think is more important. Domestic or foreign policy?

Wall Street like to pervert domestic policy and the military-industrial complex likes to push war to make that money.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:30:37 AM by MadSkillz

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#184810: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:32:36 AM

[up][up][up][up]Your argument basically boiled down to, "I hate the way the speech circuit panders to Wall Street, so attacking people who use it to make income is fair. Besides, it's sexist if you attack one, but not the other."

But, Hillary was attacked for more reasons than that: it was, and remains, a way to attack her (and her husband) for being female (and either too progressive... or not progressive enough) and raking the money in. Just as Obama has the cloud of racist attacks be deviling him.

Because, frankly: when white guys, be they politicians or not,or Democrats or not, hit the circuit, they usually don't get this degree of grief. :/

The systems around how politicians both in and out of office can make a living need changing in a lot of areas. Until they are, people are going to use it because those methods are there and are often prestigious, more than just legal.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:37:44 AM by Euodiachloris

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184811: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:35:08 AM

[up] Bernie Sanders giving such a paid speech would get him flack...but not necessarily because white men are held to the same standards.

It's because his whole image is based on being anti-establishment, anti Wall Street, and anti-corporate. Him giving such a speech would be hypocritical in a way that HRC and Obama giving speeches isn't.

I wouldn't put it past a lot of his more ardent supporters to give him a pass anyway if he did give such a speech.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:35:41 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#184812: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:37:43 AM

You couldn't be more wrong the military industrial complex pushing for wars. There's nothing less profitable to the military industrial complex than a war. They wanna meander around with projects that go nowhere and run over budget on designs that'll never see daylight. Something Bernie enabled a lot.

But in an actual war? They have to get things done. They've gotta eat massive costs to meet deadlines and production quotas and they can't cut corners either. If they don't put up then the government will drop their contracts overnight and find someone who will. Arms manufacturers hate wars.

You need to sit down and properly study how these sort of things work. There's shit tons of problems with wall street and the military industrial complex but actually take the time to go figure out what they are, don't just regurgitate cheap attack lines with no basis in reality.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:40:52 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184813: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:40:08 AM

Your argument basically boiled down to, "I hate the way the speech circuit panders to Wall Street, so attacking people who use it to make income is fair. Besides, it's sexist if you attack one, but not the other."

I see nothing wrong with this.

But, Hillary was attacked for more reasons than that: it was, and remains, a way to attack her (and her husband) for being female (and either too progressive... or not progressive enough) and raking the money in. Just as Obama has the cloud of racist attacks be deviling him.

That's what I meant when I said that these things could have racist/sexist motives behind them depending on who is saying it but it doesn't invalidate that they're legitimate criticisms.

Because, frankly: when white guys, be they politicians or not,or Democrats or not, hit the circuit, they usually don't get this degree of grief. :/

Mostly because Hillary and Obama were the top-most officials of the Democratic Party. They're its faces. Also the financial crash turned Wall Street into a national pariah so associations with them are a big no no now.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:41:12 AM by MadSkillz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#184814: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:43:16 AM

[up][up] Yeah. The ever looming threat of war and terror is good for business. Actual war not so much. Which I suppose is how a "dove" like Sanders is able to work with them.

This reminds me of Arthur Miller's All My Sons. The outbreak of an actual war nearly ruined Joe because he couldn't meet the quotas without cutting corners, leading to the tragedies that ultimately ruin his life and the lives of those around him.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:48:59 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184815: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:48:08 AM

You couldn't be more wrong the military industrial complex pushing for wars. There's nothing less profitable to the military industrial complex than a war. They wanna meander around with projects that go nowhere and run over budget on designs that'll never see daylight. Something Bernie enabled a lot. But in an actual war? They have to get things done. They've gotta eat massive costs to meet deadlines and production quotas and they can't cut corners either. If they don't put up then the government will drop their contracts overnight and find someone who will. Arms manufacturers hate wars. You need to sit down and properly study how these sort of things work. There's shit tons of problems with wall street and the military industrial complex but actually take the time to go figure out what they are, don't just regurgitate cheap attack lines with no basis in reality.

I said pushes for war not wants a real war. There's a subtle difference between the two.

But say continuously dropping bombs for instance (when advertised), that increases demand for their product which raises their stock.

Look at what happened to Raytheon's stock when Trump used those tomahawk missiles.

So they do benefit.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:50:03 AM by MadSkillz

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#184816: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:49:54 AM

Raytheon doesn't even make Tomahawks anymore. They haven't been produced in decades.

Oh really when?
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#184817: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:50:34 AM

[up][up][up][up]But, neither Hillary nor Obama ever campaigned with a platform of bringing Wall Street to its knees. Reform and restraint, yes; but, by working with it.

They don't have to be the puritans who shun the Mammon-worshiping capitalists on general principles. They never said "Wall Street is totes ebil and we will never talk to it". tongue

edited 26th Apr '17 3:53:00 AM by Euodiachloris

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184818: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:51:15 AM

[up][up]I put when advertised in parentheses because the whole thing is centered around perception. Whether it does or doesn't isn't really important.

edited 26th Apr '17 3:53:14 AM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#184819: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:57:11 AM

But, neither Hillary nor Obama ever campaigned with a platform of bringing Wall Street to its knees. Reform and restraint, yes; but, by working with it.

They don't have to be the puritans who shun the Mammon-worshiping capitalists on general principles. They never said "Wall Street is totes ebil and we will never talk to it".

Mammon-worshipping capitalists. I love that line.. I'm going to start using it more.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#184820: Apr 26th 2017 at 3:57:21 AM

Hard to blame Raytheon for that when the stock market sharks are notoriously dumb when it comes to buying/panic selling when they thing it can churn them a profit.

Pokemon GO earned millions in stocks to companies, Nintendo included, that weren't related to the game besides being associated with Pokemon.

Inter arma enim silent leges
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#184821: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:15:21 AM

Trump to sign order targeting national monuments created by Obama, Clinton

This is shameful.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/330320-trump-takes-aim-at-obama-monuments?amp

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#184822: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:20:20 AM

Evil Is Petty

"You can reply to this Message!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#184823: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:20:38 AM

It gets better on that. Apparently there is a conspiracy theory out there that claims that national monuments in Utah were created at California's behest, so that Utah's development is stunted and California can take the water in the Colorado that Utah would otherwise use. Twas in a newspaper of Salt Lake City if memory serves.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#184824: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:34:16 AM

[up][up][up] Judges and activists to the rescue then!

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#184825: Apr 26th 2017 at 4:45:08 AM

Here's some places to possibly donate or volunteer:

The UNESCO fund: https://www.gofundme.com/AltParks

Sierra Club: http://sierraclub.org/

National Parks conservation association: https://www.npca.org/#sm.0001axwlzinqzdxmsoh24agwwoyb8

And of course your closest park or monument's friends group. They are vital in helping support individual parks.

edited 26th Apr '17 4:51:02 AM by megaeliz


Total posts: 417,856
Top