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CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183901: Apr 20th 2017 at 7:42:19 AM

[up][up] That's something I really hope to avoid, though I'm honestly at a bit of a loss about how exactly we can avoid that.

[up] Inviting fiscal conservatives into the party and trying to court corporate Republicans into defecting carries different risks of a similar nature and that strategy was definitely floated during the Clinton campaign because of that bloc's antipathy towards Trump, and while I would like to think we don't need either, I can appreciate why someone might not think that's the case. What's going to be critical is how many congressional seats of this sort are tolerable, and how much is to risky. 5 senators and 20 Representatives like this wouldn't be much of a threat, especially if blue states get people who are both socially and economically progressive.

edited 20th Apr '17 7:57:22 AM by CaptainCapsase

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#183902: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:13:48 AM

I wonder why we are trying to unite more people into our party when the Republicans, (barely) won an election despite going cartoon evil and being extremely divisive? We can do the same thing too once people are really goddamn tired of actually living with a republican governing us. There are some we can never unite, we shouldn't waste our time trying to reach out to them.

edited 20th Apr '17 8:17:42 AM by Wildcard

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#183903: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:15:34 AM

[up][up]I don't see that in the near future at least. Current politics is largely a culture war when one gets past the purple prose and catchphrases. Fiscal conservatives revolt when their services are cut. That whole debate is more a function of society disagreeing on where taxes should go (and the fundamental inability of any US public official to commit to significant tax increases).
Even now the field looks more like herrenvolk socialism and economic rents (with those two pillars of support directly clashing) sustained with deficit spending vs welfare capitalism (that may or may not progress to social democracy) with an inclusive, civic nationalism if only because they rely on minorities for their support.
If anything social liberalism would be in danger of disappearing altogether, while the parties compete to broaden then lower economic benefits. (Minority groups are not as good as one would expect at mutual support, and no one of them is large enough to carry a social liberalization agenda on its own.)

[up]Losing to Trump in an election you've been told would be a historic landslide, losing SCOTUS in a humiliating Doomed Moral Victor book ending, watching the rise of a Trumpist-tea partier-Gop majority in both houses of Congress while people like Devos get control of parts of the government, and being wiped out in so many states that the GOP could theoretically call a constitutional convention with a few more victories is a bit soul-shattering. And much more visible than looking at the raw numbers and structural problems that lead to that result. Tis easy to conclude that Dems have gone out of style (As many in GA have). I just hope this doesn't induce another New Dem phase...

edited 20th Apr '17 8:20:34 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#183904: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:16:34 AM

[up][up][up] Well, being a Bleeding Heart Libertarian myself, I can definitely say it'd be way better to have that in our society then Right Wing Socialism. It won't be for everyone, though, but it'll be for a lot more people then the Racist, Reactionary Socialism RWS would want to impliment.

Alabama State Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore has been removed from the Alabama Supreme Court for abusing power and ignoring the Supreme Court's ruling on Same-Sex Marriage laws. This is the 3rd major Alabama Statesman (after frmr. House Speaker Mike Hubbard and frmr. Governor Robert Bentley) in a year to lose their seat (willingly or not), and this is the 2nd time he was removed from the State Supreme Court. This state...

edited 20th Apr '17 8:18:33 AM by DingoWalley1

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#183905: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:18:57 AM

So...what can come next if Social Liberalism disappears as you say? (Which is rather unlikely to be honest).

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#183906: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:19:04 AM

[up][up]Revoke his law license. It is the only way to keep him out.

[up]An America even more ruled by money, racism, and sexism.

edited 20th Apr '17 8:21:06 AM by Wildcard

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183907: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:20:47 AM

especially if blue states get people who are both socially and economically progressive

Except that they won't if Sanders is left to run the show, as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't backed off on support for Gabbard who, in deep blue Hawaii, is practically a member of the alt-right, what with her records on homophobia, Islamaphobia, Hindu nationalism, and Assad apologism. I don't know about you, but I don't want a Congress filled with people like her.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#183908: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:21:58 AM

[up][up] Nothing positive comes to your head, isn't it?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#183909: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:25:02 AM

@Century Eye: 8-9 Years ago before the rise of the Tea Party the Republicans were in much the same boat with how unpopular Bush and his bushism,war, and party were. Bright side, it looks like people are already realizing how bad the right wing is at getting anything done/being good to their people, because it suddenly matters when white people get their Safety Net taken away. Take advantage of that, tell them the truth, "Trump duped you!".

All you need to win is a catchy slogan and to tell your people "Your awesome! Doing nothing wrong, fuck everyone else!" The Republicans proved that pretty definitively.

edited 20th Apr '17 8:27:36 AM by Wildcard

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183910: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:27:42 AM

[up][up][up] Gabbard is also quite well liked in her home district in Hawaii IIRC (60+% approval rating among constituents I think); there's no real point in trying to remove her unless her approval rating slips significantly, because it's unlikely to work.

edited 20th Apr '17 8:30:20 AM by CaptainCapsase

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#183911: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:30:39 AM

So...what can come next if Social Liberalism disappears as you say? (Which is rather unlikely to be honest).
I was running with Cap's worst-case scenarios, and, it would be more accurate to say the movement might end up powerless.
The idea of social justice wouldn't vanish, it would just end up mute while everyone goes to each her own. Blacks, LGBT, women, etc and all qualified by those who care and who care and prefer to change the system rather than hope they can adjust to the rules and succeed anyway are not going to carry social liberalism on their own.
Women theoretically have the numbers to do that, but given the breakdown in voting metrics (and people like Phyllis Schlafly, tis probably fantastical to assume that any one group will be 100% committed addressing societal hierarchies. I can't imagine black turnout being that great if the choice comes down to herrenvolk social democracy or second-class welfare capitalism, which'll lead to the parties discounting them as they look for other votes. And don't forget the conditions of LGB Ts just a decade ago, the still entrenched hatred of them now, and how they live around the world. Speaking out w/o allies could end up being dangerous.
In essence minority groups would end up hanging separately.

@Wildcard.
Oh, I don't think its hopeless far from it. You'll know I've reached that point when I update my page to say "so I just settled down in Germany..."
The optics are what's soul-shattering and people seem to have forgotten President Bush as well as the past eight years, as otherwise Trump and the GOP wouldn't have been able to credibly run a campaign as peace advocates. Still less would a number of AJC commenters be able to say President Obama did nothing in office.

edited 20th Apr '17 8:44:09 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#183912: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:32:56 AM

Btw, Heath Mello, who Sanders is stumping for in Nebraska is a member of the Knights of Columbus, if some research is to be believed. A group of basically anti-abortion fanatics just a hair shy of Operation Rescue. Lemme say this: I don’t believe in dealbreakers. In the general election, you vote for the best candidate available, and pressure them as best you can. If Mello is the best in the Nebraskan race, so be it. But any purity test he passes that Jon Ossoff fails is a really bad test.

I am fully willing to compromise with people who may hold more, shall we say, retrograde views on social issues if they'll make deciding pushes for labor rights, healthcare, regulation in return for allowing the occasional show vote against abortion or guns. I'm likewise fully willing to compromise with people who aren't super left on economics. I'm not okay allowing Bernie Sanders to pick and choose who can be anointed a 'progressive', shrink our tent and craft utterly hypocritical purity tests based in nothing more than his personal whim.

Meanwhile, the assassination of Keith Ellison by the Neoliberal Coward Tom Perez continues

The move is one of many small shifts that Perez has undertaken to steer the Democrats slightly more to the left. Already, Perez is sounding more like the president of the AFL-CIO than DNC chairs of past years.

“I mean, there is an unmitigated assault on the labor movement. It’s an assault that just got a big weapon in the form of the confirmation of Judge Gorsuch to the Supreme Court. Now there are five votes on that court to make it very, very hard for public-sector labor unions to collect dues,” Perez tells me as we sit in the lobby of the Louisville Hilton.

It’s an attack that has Perez deeply worried.

“And they aren’t gonna stop at public-sector unions,” says Perez. “The way to take down the progressive movement is to attack those community pillars, whether it’s Planned Parenthood or the labor movement. This is not coincidence—who is getting attacked.”

Critics on the left continue to criticize Perez for being a tool of the Democratic Party’s corporate wing, following a contentious DNC election in which he beat progressive stalwart and Bernie-backed Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN). Now, Perez has attempted to distance himself from that label by getting involved in labor struggles.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: Perez is viewed with undue suspicion despite an utterly stellar record as a Civil Rights advocate, the best labor secretary since Frances Perkins because some have made Bernie Sanders the litmus test. It has to end.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183913: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:42:48 AM

[up] Yeah, Bernie Sanders isn't exactly my gold standard for politicians either.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#183914: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:46:36 AM

Breaking: It looks like Chaffetz isn't just not seeking re-election, he may resign and leave his seat early.

Yep. A shitstorm is coming and he's bailing the fuck out, John Boehner style

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183915: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:49:23 AM

[up] It does seem pretty weird that he's bailing after the GOP had just won a ton of political power.

edited 20th Apr '17 8:49:53 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#183916: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:56:06 AM

AND he's the Chair of the House Oversight Committee. Short of being the Chair of Ways and Means Committee and Appropriations, it doesn't get much more influential than that, if you're not the Speaker.

NO ONE would voluntarily leave that position, especially when your party controls all three branches of government unless some shit was about to go down.

New Survey coming this weekend!
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#183917: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:56:41 AM

Not when you realize that the Republicans are beginning to understand that governing is a lot harder than throwing an eight year long temper tantrum.

Trump delenda est
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183918: Apr 20th 2017 at 8:56:47 AM

Maybe the Dems shouldn't remove Gabbard, but they should definitely work to censure her, and keep her away from core leadership positions. If she gets a loud enough voice in the party, she will turn someone (independents, LGBT, Muslims, humanitarian interventionists, etc) off and disengage them.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#183919: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:00:13 AM

Hang on a second..

the assassination of Keith Ellison by the Neoliberal Coward Tom Perez continues
This sentiment seems our of nowhere, since I thought these two were working together as DNC chair and co-chair. Or am I mixing Perez for someone else?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183920: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:00:23 AM

Gabbard is also quite well liked in her home district in Hawaii IIRC (60+% approval rating among constituents I think); there's no real point in trying to remove her unless her approval rating slips significantly, because it's unlikely to work.

Because she would of course maintain that approval rating while being primaried by an actual progressive who exposes all her flaws to the public view.

There's every reason to primary Gabbard. She's in a deep blue state that is basically incapable of going Republican. There is no reason to keep her around. She can be safely targeted without costing the party a seat. So they should do it.

I'm not okay allowing Bernie Sanders to pick and choose who can be anointed a 'progressive', shrink our tent and craft utterly hypocritical purity tests based in nothing more than his personal whim.

This, so very much. Sanders does not get to declare that a Blue Dog is a True Progressive (TM), while simultaneously refusing to throw support to the likes of Ossof. He is not the arbiter of what constitutes progressivism or liberalism or whatever the hell we want to call it.

Frankly, I'm tired of having the Democratic Party held hostage by this rich man's idea of a socialist revolutionary.

[up]He's sarcastically referencing the Bernie Bro opinion of Perez.

edited 20th Apr '17 9:00:53 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#183921: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:05:11 AM

I think that Gabbard was actually primaried in 2016 but survived by quite a wide margin. Some folks - such as Howard Dean per [1] - are calling for another challenge. I don't think she'll receive leadership positions, anyway, for these you definitively need the support of bigwigs.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#183922: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:06:25 AM

So what does primary mean in this context? kicking upstairs or flat out removal?

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#183923: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:06:49 AM

I hope Pelosi politically castrates her and keeps her from ANY leadership position and assign her to the shittiest committees, assuming she survives a primary challenge.

New Survey coming this weekend!
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#183924: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:06:49 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]That phrasing was tongue in cheek, I presume.

edited 20th Apr '17 9:07:13 AM by ViperMagnum357

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183925: Apr 20th 2017 at 9:07:39 AM

@sgamer82

It's a bit of sarcasm based on The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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