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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I would agree it is a tiresome argument, but it's a necessary one. Like it or not, Bernie Sanders is a big figure nowadays and since this is a politics thread, it is crucial we discuss it. In this particular case it's not like this discussion emerged from the abject nothing, there's a reason to discuss it (Sanders's statements on Ossof).
Or rather for you to discuss it and for me to watch it all from afar.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."@Mad Skillz
Well then what do you think of it? My take is that Sanders has spent a lot of time talking about reaching out to Trump voters and districts that went for Trump but that when presented with the opportunity to actually do so, seems reluctant to put his money where his mouth is. The district Ossof was running in just barely went for Trump, and would seem prime for being flipped. Ossof was polling well, even before the Democratic Establishment got behind him. He's a young guy, and if elected would be one of the few millennial Members of Congress. From where I'm looking at it, this seems like a perfect place for Sanders to demonstrate his ability to mobilize his base to support a Democrat and prove that he's right about districts that went for Trump.
Instead he states that he doesn't know if Ossof is a progressive (a decision virtually calculated to depress turnout among his own supporters), and declares his intent to go campaign for a Blue Dog (not that he calls him that) in a mayoral election in Omaha.
If I'm Tom Perez I am, at this point, seriously reconsidering Sanders' ability/willingness to help the Democrats accomplish things.
edited 19th Apr '17 6:45:17 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
For better or worse Sander's is probably too independent to make for a useful unifying figure at the moment, where as Tom Perez's and Keith Ellison's amicability during and after the election was something genuine that people could believe in I think.
There are trade offs. Bernie can rally a crowd bigger and faster than Ellison can.
But on the other hand, Bernie doesn't even see it as a unity tour. He sees it as a way to highlight the issues (and maybe promote his version of the Democratic Party).
Basically, Bernie and Perez are using each other. And I think Bernie may possibly be getting the better of end of the deal.
Instead he states that he doesn't know if Ossof is a progressive (a decision virtually calculated to depress turnout among his own supporters), and declares his intent to go campaign for a Blue Dog (not that he calls him that) in a mayoral election in Omaha. If I'm Tom Perez I am, at this point, seriously reconsidering Sanders' ability/willingness to help the Democrats accomplish things.
I'm on board with why you're saying so I'm not really happy about this.
Either Bernie didnt think much about what he said, he doesn't like Ossoff or he's only really willing to bat for candidates that he sees as progressive (unless it's do or die like with Hillary).
And I'm not sure we're all going to agree with what a progressive is but to Bernie, I think it's someone that's willing to fight corporations.
So maybe that Blue Dog has some lefty economic positions.
Some people are bound to listen. A lot of the Sanders crowd are young kids so they're still getting into politics. Sanders is kind of a gateway politician from what I've seen. So hearing Perez or some other Dems speak alongside Sanders could make them a little more interested in the Democratic Party.
And if Bernie advertises some progressive Democrats that'll be picked up on and translate into votes.
edited 19th Apr '17 7:03:40 PM by MadSkillz
Gateway politician? That sounds an awful lot like gateway drug. Which given the cultish nature of the whole thing isn't too far off.
I'm not sure the potential gains in votes is worth encouraging messianic politics. Actually, I'm pretty sure they're not.
edited 19th Apr '17 7:05:47 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedAnd concerning Sanders not endorsing Ossof, potentially fucking things up for the June run-off...
WTF Sanders?! Just...WTF?!
He says he wants the Democratic Party to succeed, but refuses to go to bat for a young Democrat who made it to the June run-off in a traditionally Red district.
Disgusted, but not surprised![]()
Whole lot of "hopefully"s these days, not so many positive "definitely"s going around anymore. Can't call it a good omen.
edited 19th Apr '17 7:31:17 PM by TrashJack
"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's DictionarySanders: Dems should try to get the wwc vote
A Dem gets a good chunk of the wwc and Sanders is nowhere to throw the bone
I'm sure the issue is more nuanced than this, but I'm tired.
Coal company plans huge solar farm on strip mine
Even coal companies know coal's time, like this mountain they fucked up, is long gone. And I'm sure this presents a good opportunity for coal workers worried about layoffs to learn a new job skill installing solar panels and they won't whine..... bwahahaha!
edited 19th Apr '17 7:33:35 PM by NoName999
@M84 That's something I've been privately worried about. That the whole thing is too Sanders-centric rather than progressive-centric.
So I do have issues that politicians become popular or well-known based on Sanders' blessing rather than on their politics.
Sanders is still human and can make mistakes as he did with Tulsi.
But that's no different from the young Obama voters.
Looking for a messiah is a stage kids go through.
edited 19th Apr '17 7:36:39 PM by MadSkillz
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Don't forget Canova, who by all accounts is an absolutely awful human being and a conspiracy nutter. And who couldn't even beat DWS.
I'm pretty sure putting America on the path to accepting public healthcare via the ACA counts as progressive. Regardless of how Obama identifies himself.
edited 19th Apr '17 7:43:27 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised

@Ace Funnily enough, I actually like Warren more than Sanders but Warren isn't stepping up to the plate like Sanders is and neither does she have his popularity.
So I gotta make do with Sanders.
edited 19th Apr '17 6:41:21 PM by MadSkillz