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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183751: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:02:40 PM

Ambar, Cap, if you want to get personal like that you can take it to pms. We don't need the thread turning into a personal fight. Why you two don't like each other is not the topic of the thread.

Frankly, I don't historically dislike Cap and have no idea what's fueling this. I wasn't aware until recently that he and I apparently had a problem with each other, and would be more than happy to abandon this line of discussion.

In other news, a depressing number of articles online are trumpeting the Georgia Special Election going into a runoff as an enormous setback for the Democrats, which is just utter nonsense. Coming within a hairsbreadth of winning in a district where you have traditionally stood no chance is hardly a setback. It may not be accomplishing anything in a meaningful sense, but it's hardly the crushing defeat some are spinning it as. Good luck getting anyone to admit to that though.

Anybody got any positive news to share?

edited 19th Apr '17 5:04:34 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#183752: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:04:57 PM

O'Reilly's been forced out of Fox News. Fucking finally. Hopefully he doesn't just migrate somewhere else.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183753: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:05:09 PM

There's very little to suggest that Sanders can actually bring independents to the Democrats. He can bring independents to Bernie Sanders by maintaining his persona as the heroic outsider fighting the Democrats from the left. However, much of his base turned on him for "selling out" when he endorsed Clinton after she won the primary. (That they came back to him after Clinton lost is irrelevant — the point is that Sanders can't get people to vote for Democrats.)

At the very least he's pulling the Dems left and I'd point to California being taken over by the Berniecrats.

This is the problem with the people you're suggesting that the Democrats should court. They aren't interested in viable policy positions or pragmatic governance. They're interested in ideological purity and nothing else. The fact that ideological purity neither wins elections nor makes for good policy is irrelevant to them — in their mind, it's the system's fault, so they get to feel virtuous by wasting their vote on someone who will never make it into office, rather than sullying their hands by voting for a candidate that may actually win, but doesn't give them warm fuzzies about being a political Doomed Moral Victor.

I feel like you're lumping a lot of people with a small minority of Sanders supporters. As has been said, most Sanders supporters voted for Hillary.

What's the evidence that Sanders' base will only vote for Sanders?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#183754: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:05:30 PM

Well, it's old, but Bill O'Reilly got fired, which shows that social pressure and disapproval can be an effective tool regarding diminishing the influence, however slightly, of the old and sexist white male. Or at the very least shows that such behavior is increasingly not OK in this modern society.

  • shrug* I ain't got much else. Good news is going to be of smaller kind in the future, I think.

[up]California was already pretty goddamn blue, so I'm not so sure that's actually a strong point in your favor. They were moving that way without Sanders, because that's current California culture. It's more accurate to say that Sanders is part of a current movement of certain parts of the country that's moving leftward, not that he's doing that all himself.

Also, going back to the whole "young people didn't actually vote" kind of... well, proves that he can't effectively bring votes to the Democrats, because the Democrats need those young voters and he didn't inspire them enough to vote for him in significant numbers to win the nomination. Again, the burden is on you to prove he can bring in voters.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:08:51 PM by AceofSpades

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#183755: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:05:41 PM

[up]x4 Chaffetz won't seek reelection, Bill O'Reilly got fired from Fox... don't remember much more.[nja]

edited 19th Apr '17 5:06:24 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#183756: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:05:42 PM

[up][up][up][up] That's not really news at this point, even if it is cathartic. But whatever, I'll drink to it regardless.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:06:12 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183757: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:08:11 PM

O'Reilly being gone is lovely, though sadly unlikely to do a great deal of damage to FOX. They seem to have realized that one reactionary talking head is much the same as another reactionary talking head, and they can essentially replace him with someone else and just hand that person O'Reilly's script.

Basically, it's very personally satisfying—I'll be gloating about it for days to come—but I don't know if it will make a difference.

Chaffetz not seeking reelection is also great, though Utah being Utah the odds are good that whoever replaces him will be just as bad. I've heard Evan McMullin might seek the seat, which would potentially put another anti-Trump Republican in congress at least.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:09:33 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183758: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:09:30 PM

Can we stop retrying the 2016 election please. It keeps coming up, and always ends up with the same arguments, and tends to run around in circles.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:10:06 PM by megaeliz

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#183759: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:10:11 PM

I'm hoping the next person to take his place isn't nearly as compelling to Fox's audience. Part of the reason O'Reilly is as effective as he is is because he's got a certain charisma that keeps people watching him. If the next person to replace him can't match that, well, maybe it'll lead to a little less interest in Fox generally.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183760: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:11:39 PM

@Kostya

A couple of quotes from that article I posted can be found here. I can't access the rest, sadly, but IF Wanderer said they should be able to have it up sometime shortly.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#183761: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:11:39 PM

[up][up]It's gonna be Tucker Carlson, apparently.

[up]Gimme a second and I'll copy-paste it.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:12:25 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183762: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:12:26 PM

[up]See I think Carlson has the charisma of a dead fish, but his audience sadly doesn't share my opinion.

EDIT: And thanks. A friend of mine had shared the article with me in a format that was readable. I didn't realize until after I'd posted the link here that a paywall would go up with anyone else.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:19:17 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183763: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:14:16 PM

[up] Random observation, but I had to read his book for summer reading once.

Is anyone watching the third resistance school tomorrow night at 7:00 PM eastern Time? I might if possible. It's called "How to Structure and Build Capacity for Action".

https://www.resistanceschool.com/session-three-1/

edited 19th Apr '17 5:16:00 PM by megaeliz

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183764: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:16:42 PM

[up]My sympathies to you. That can't have been pleasant reading.

Speaking of O'Reilly, lets all remember his various meltdowns and freak outs.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:22:56 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183765: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:22:54 PM

Then there's what Native Jovian brought up: If he can't actually bring the voters themselves to the Democratic party to vote for Democrats, then what good is he as an ally? Results are actually pretty important as a factor.

Also it just seems like he's waffling more and more lately in his relationship with the Democrats. What good do his ideals and policies do the rest of us if he's not actually achieving anything that works towards those ideals and policies?

He's actively touring with the head of the DNC and helping Democrats out.

At that moment, Sanders was on the second day of a week-long, cross-country speaking tour with Democratic National Committee Chairman Thomas Perez. The DNC was picking up half the bill for the 12-seat chartered plane as well as the venues, including the downtown Louisville Palace.

As Sanders spoke, Perez was a block away, meeting with party leaders who — like most Democratic leaders — had backed Hillary Clinton for president. Later that evening, they would take a stage and praise Sanders, who is not a Democrat, for reinvigorating their party. A chairman who defeated Sanders’s preferred candidate to run the DNC was now touring as his opening act.

Tom Perez is literally singing him praises and getting Sanders fans to sign up for the Democratic Party at these tours.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:23:47 PM by MadSkillz

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183766: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:28:11 PM

Florida police arrested a ten year old autistic a while back. Posting it here in order to ask—under what freaking law is this a thing that can happen, and who needs to get voted out or have their department examined in detail to make sure it doesn't happen again?

edited 19th Apr '17 5:34:37 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#183767: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:30:25 PM

That's just the tip of the iceberg in mistreatment of disabled children in schools. Most schools are not equipped to deal with meltdowns etc, and call the police.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:37:35 PM by megaeliz

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#183768: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:31:29 PM

[up][up][up]Has it actually been effective so far? Last I heard, Sanboys were mad at him for being a corporate shill or whatever.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:31:37 PM by PhysicalStamina

i'm tired, my friend
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#183769: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:32:38 PM

[up] Where are you getting that idea from? Like seriously, the people who act like that are a Vocal Minority, and I suspect a great many of them disavowed Sanders after he conceded the primaries and endorsed Clinton instead of taking of Jill Stein's offer to run on the Green ticket.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:37:44 PM by CaptainCapsase

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#183770: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:34:00 PM

[up]x4 It's the ultimate conclusion to zero tolerance policies.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:34:14 PM by rmctagg09

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183771: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:35:40 PM

[up]Even that doesn't make sense. I don't recall the last time I saw a story about a student being dragged off by the cops for using slurs on other students. Heck I struggle to remember the last time I saw a student hauled off for assault (maybe it doesn't make the paper?).

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#183772: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:36:32 PM

[up][up][up]Actual posts I saw on a different sites from such people.

Also, nice totally not inflammatory title with that article.

edited 19th Apr '17 5:38:02 PM by PhysicalStamina

i'm tired, my friend
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183773: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:37:19 PM

[up]There's an element of his base for whom that's true. How representative they are is a matter of some debate.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#183774: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:37:53 PM

Some of the people I follow on twitter are members of the Democratic Socialists of America and they were not pleased by Perez refusing to state that the "ruling class & billionaire class" are to blame for our problems. Also, a DSA candidate won a local board position in one of the municipalities where Ossoff was running. That is cool, but it seems from the DSA twitter that the organization/members were only involved in that local election and didn't take part in or donate to Ossoff's campaign (although admittedly they probably voted for him if eligible).

And there seems to be an undertone of framing the two elections as evidence that Democratic Socialists can win elections and Democrats cannot.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183775: Apr 19th 2017 at 5:41:44 PM

[up]When the truth of course is that a majority of socialist candidates, lose.

The sad thing? Sanders knows this. That's why the guy he's backing in Omaha is a Blue Dog. And I have no problem with that—a Blue Dog is probably what you need to win in Nebraska. But he's pitching the guy as his kind of progressive and his fanbase seems to believe that.


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