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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#183651: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:32:34 AM

[up] The review is probably just so he can look tough on Iran. Wouldn't surprise me if Mattis was involved in this decision — the man hates Iran.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183652: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:38:09 AM

So...a while back in this thread a number of people were claiming that Sanders has promised to join the Democratic Party. Last night, on Chris Hayes, Hayes asked him if he considered himself a Democrat and was told "no".

Damned shame about Ossof not getting in. He's almost certain to lose in a runoff and that is a pity. Getting in a new Democratic Congressman, and one from goddamn Georgia of all places, would have been fantastic. Going forward, I sincerely hope that Ossof stays involved in Georgian and Democratic politics alike. He's thirty years old, he raised millions of dollars essentially by himself, and he managed to be competitive in the South. That's a guy who should have a future.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#183653: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:41:06 AM

[up] He will get one, don't get hopeless about it and see how round 2 turns off.

edited 19th Apr '17 10:41:13 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#183654: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:41:41 AM

Not sure if the party thing matters. About the special election, what amount of votes did the other two Democratic candidates receive?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#183655: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:46:19 AM

Obama was born to an American citizen in the U.S. State of Hawaii in 1961, two years after statehood had been ratified.; there was never any question as to his eligibility. It was pure racism.

Yeah, the whole birther thing is one of the most transparently racist fabrications I've ever seen. If Obama was white, nobody would have given his citizenship a second thought.

edited 19th Apr '17 10:46:37 AM by Draghinazzo

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183656: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:47:08 AM

So...a while back in this thread a number of people were claiming that Sanders has promised to join the Democratic Party. Last night, on Chris Hayes, Hayes asked him if he considered himself a Democrat and was told "no".

Those two thoughts don't actually contradict each other.

He considers himself a socialist. He's been very adamant about that.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183657: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:50:21 AM

Not sure if the party thing matters.

Guy promises to join the Democratic Party. Guy's fans defend his continued involvement in that Party's internal policies on that basis. Guy is given posts by the Democratic Party on that basis. Guy goes on TV and says he's not a Democrat. That seems to matter to me.

@luigisan

I really hope so. Too often candidates who lose get forgotten about, when in Ossof's case, the fact that he got anywhere at all in Georgia should be getting him lots of attention and future opportunities within the Democratic Party.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183658: Apr 19th 2017 at 10:53:08 AM

The other Dems only received less than 1%, and collectively they wouldn't be enough to push Ossoff over 50.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183659: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:00:01 AM

Guy promises to join the Democratic Party. Guy's fans defend his continued involvement in that Party's internal policies on that basis. Guy is given posts by the Democratic Party on that basis. Guy goes on TV and says he's not a Democrat. That seems to matter to me.

I welcome it. Especially since I'm a registered independent that campaigns for Democrats.

"If the Democratic Party is going to succeed - and I want to see it succeed - it's gonna have to open its door to independents," he continued. "There are probably more independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."

Some establishment Democrats have criticized Sanders for not joining the party, while he has tried to assert his influence on it. But progressives have argued that the Democratic Party needs independents to expand and should open its arms to those new voters who may not fully identify with the party.

edited 19th Apr '17 11:00:16 AM by MadSkillz

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183660: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:03:51 AM

I'm sorry, but no. Independents are not some monolithic bloc that will be won over by the presence of one of their own, because they are, by definition, Independent, and have a wide range of views.

Moreover, if Sanders promised to join the Democratic Party and is now reneging on that promise he's, well, reneging on a promise. So much for his famed honesty.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183661: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:06:08 AM

A few people (on both sides) have been charged with human smuggling with regards to foreign nationals being taken across the US-Canada border.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/human-smuggling-charge-sask-1.4075498

If things actually get bad enough to send the numbers up high enough, there will no regulating (let alone stopping) the influx. That border is too big and too rough to secure.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183662: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:08:46 AM

[up]Agreed. Neither Canada nor the US has ever been able to entirely secure the border. This could get ugly.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#183663: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:14:03 AM

Human traffickers having a field day, people dying of exposure, people not getting access to any kind of support if they don't report themselves to the government, and the handful of troublemakers that cross illegally fueling xenophobia on both sides.

And most of the border crossers will be deported if caught, unless the situation in the US truly goes to utter shit.

Yeah, This Is Gonna Suck. It won't be Europe bad, but its a problem with no solution other than the US political situation improving.

edited 19th Apr '17 11:14:31 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#183664: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:17:01 AM

Here's a fun one I saw on today's What Fuck Just Happened Today feed

https://miamiherald.relaymedia.com/amp/news/local/community/broward/article145327079.html

Miami state senator curses at black lawmaker — and refers to fellow Republicans as ‘niggas’

First portion of the article:

Miami Republican Sen. Frank Artiles dropped the n-word to a pair of African-American colleagues in private conversation Monday night — after calling one of them a “fucking asshole,” a “bitch” and a “girl,” the two senators said.

Over drinks after 10 p.m. at the members-only Governors Club just steps from the state Capitol, Artiles told Sens. Audrey Gibson of Jacksonville and Perry Thurston of Fort Lauderdale that Senate President Joe Negron of Stuart had been risen to his powerful GOP leadership role because “six niggers” in the Republican caucus had elected him.

Artiles later told Gibson and Thurston that he’d used the word “niggas,” suggesting the slang term was not meant to be insulting, Gibson and Thurston said. It’s unclear whom Artiles was referring to, since the only black senators in the state Senate are all Democrats — and none of them backed Negron’s bid to lead the chamber.

Artiles apologized to Gibson late Tuesday afternoon, after he’d been reported to Republican leaders and reporters started asking questions.

“In an exchange with a colleague of mine in the Senate, I unfortunately let my temper get the best of me,” Artiles said later in a statement. “There is no excuse for the exchange that occurred and I have apologized to my Senate colleagues and regret the incident profusely.”

To Gibson and Thurston, it was clear Artiles wasn’t referring to them or to any other Democrats as “niggas” but apparently to six Republicans who favored Negron for the job over Sen. Jack Latvala of Clearwater

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183665: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:18:33 AM

I'm sorry, but no. Independents are not some monolithic bloc that will be won over by the presence of one of their own, because they are, by definition, Independent, and have a wide range of views.

Sanders is currently the most popular politician in America. If he brings more independents to the Dems then we should be supporting that effort.

And they do have one thing in common. They've been disenfranchised by both parties hence why they're independent. That's 42 % of the country.

So talking to them is a good idea and getting them involved is a good idea.

Moreover, if Sanders promised to join the Democratic Party and is now reneging on that promise he's, well, reneging on a promise. So much for his famed honesty.

I'm going to re-quote you:

You couldn't resist, could you?

That said, Sanders said he would finish out his term as an independent because he was elected as an independent and that's what he's doing. Where is the contradiction?

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183666: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:21:26 AM

Democrats received 49% of the vote in Georgia yesterday. That does not look like a race Ossof has no chance of winning in a run-off to me. That's a coin flip.

edited 19th Apr '17 11:24:31 AM by Gilphon

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#183667: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:23:08 AM

Also via WTF:

LA Times: Pence to North Korea: the Sword stands ready".

I doubt that North Korea are gonna be the only people under that blade.

Side note: He's making this warning from atop the Ronald Regan.

edited 19th Apr '17 11:24:41 AM by MorningStar1337

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#183668: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:23:11 AM

49% is not quite enough for me. Unless Mrs. Handel has a number of vulnerabilities that can be exploited.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183669: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:24:28 AM

Gilphon's right.

Handel also has turn out all the voters that her rivals did for herself.

Ossoff just needs to garner a bit more support.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#183670: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:26:04 AM

@Mad Skillz

Not sure what requoting me there was supposed to accomplish. I mean, yeah, I'm taking a shot at Sanders. Because if he's going back on something he promised, he merits have shots fired at him, particularly in view of his positioning himself as the most honest man in America.

As to the rest, there's not much point in pandering to people who cannot be relied upon to vote for the Party, and Independents are disenfranchised more by choice than by anything else.

@Gilphon

The assumption, sadly, is that the other 51% will rally behind the Republican candidate. I'm hoping that's not the case and that, as Tom Perez suggested in an interview this morning, that there are in fact additional Democratic voters (or deeply unhappy Republican voters) who can be brought out of the woodwork and into backing Ossof.

The GOP will do everything it can to stop that from happening though, so one way or another, this is gonna get tense.

edited 19th Apr '17 11:27:51 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#183671: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:31:20 AM

And Bill O'Reilly is gone.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#183672: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:35:15 AM

Also, another high profile screw-up for Trump could easily tip that balance.

It's also worth keeping in mind that there are 48 districts out there current held by Republicans that are bluer Georgia 6. Just to put this result in context.

@Ambar: Of course that's the assumption. But in what universe is a race where the candidates are polling 49-51, with the vote months away, safe bet for either side?

edited 19th Apr '17 11:38:01 AM by Gilphon

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#183673: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:36:19 AM

Huzzah! I wouldn't be surprised if at least one more guy gets knocked down because of a similar scandal.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#183674: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:45:35 AM

Not sure what requoting me there was supposed to accomplish. I mean, yeah, I'm taking a shot at Sanders. Because if he's going back on something he promised, he merits have shots fired at him, particularly in view of his positioning himself as the most honest man in America.

You figured it out.

But he didn't is my point. You're creating a contradiction that's not there.

As to the rest, there's not much point in pandering to people who cannot be relied upon to vote for the Party, and Independents are disenfranchised more by choice than by anything else.

Get them to care then.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#183675: Apr 19th 2017 at 11:56:50 AM

Re: Ossof.

The superficial analysis: Not knocking out the carnival car of Republicans in the first round is a body blow, because they could end up becoming a winning 51% coalition behind Handel.

The deep analysis: It's two months away, and a Democrat managed to get 48.1% of a solid red district behind him. If this was fiction, it would be unbelievable. Strategically, a loss for Ossof wouldn't be damning since this is still Republican country, but still to our advantage that we forced GOP voters and machines to waste money defending their home turf. It might end up that Ossof keeps his bloc together and ekes out a win. This has parts of Atlanta in it; there have got to be some moderates who haven't been tapped yet.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

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