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GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#172126: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:17:18 AM

This Founding Father ancestor-worship complex some people have drives me spare. They were fallible humans like us for crying out loud. Sticking to their letter of the law above all else is incredibly illogical.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#172127: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:20:04 AM

Again, taxdodging slaveholders.

Continue writing our story of peace.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172128: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:21:44 AM

Violence can be justified if necessary as self defense in the face of assault, but violent protest has never changed a regime.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#172129: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:25:29 AM

Founding Father worship is the epitome of white privilege, and it goes beyond their commitment to slavery. Their actions against Native Americans, their Evil Overlord attitude towards annexing Canada, and their comically arrogant attitude towards their own people makes them unworthy of veneration in the present-day. Part of the problem is that the American Revolution is primarily taught in elementary school history — which is basically nationalist indoctrination. It tends to be a rather passe and overlooked topic in high school and college. By the time people are old enough to really consider how flawed and unsavory our Founders were, the interest has already shifted.

[up]Violent protest was at the heart of the French Revolution, and that changed the world, not just a regime. You can't affect change if violence is completely off the table. If, at best, you make the powers that be annoyed on their morning commute because you're picketing on the road, you're already failing at being taken seriously.

edited 2nd Feb '17 8:28:21 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172130: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:31:08 AM

[up][up] Tell that to France in the 1790's.tongue

@Reason.com and Libertarianism: As a Libertarian myself, there are multiple versions of Libertarianism ranging from Paleolibertarianism to Libertarian Marxism, and there are a variety of Schools in between. Not every Libertarian is an out-and-out Objectivist Libertarian. In fact, Ayn Rand hated the Libertarians, who she thought were simple idealists who were clueless when it came to actually running a society.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#172131: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:34:57 AM

My frustration with Liberatarianism is their belief that nobody needs government protection, and that any attempts at establishing it is an unrepentant power grab. I wonder how many of the movement are religious, gender, or racial minorities in the place they practice.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#172132: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:36:46 AM

So, did anyone else catch that portion of that Prayer Breakfast where Trump vowed to destroy the separation of Church and State? No? well, here you go: [1]

Also, Arnold struck back at Trump, suggesting they switch jobs so America can sleep easy again. [2]

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172133: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:37:40 AM

Ayn Rand hated the Libertarians, who she thought were simple idealists who were clueless when it came to actually running a society.

Oh my God that's hilarious.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#172135: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:56:08 AM

Trump repealing the Johnson Amendment:

Time to rebrand the bible belt states the Dumbfuckstan if that ever happens.

Religious expressions under threat my ass, I bet this is Mike "shock away the gay" Pence pulling the strings so him and his cronies can freely use their religious cattle to influence politics.

edited 2nd Feb '17 8:57:09 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#172136: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:06:01 AM

I'd suggest turning that ruling against him. Not all churches like Trump after all...

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172137: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:09:03 AM

[up] Exactly. There are more Religions in the USA that are against Trump (or at the very least, certain policies of his) then for him.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#172138: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:09:11 AM

Indeed, progressive evangelicals/mainline Protestants (especially African-American Churches) were instrumental in bringing down the Republican governor of North Carolina.

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:09:40 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#172139: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:09:59 AM

I don't think Trump or any of his advisory is an evil genius (evil, yes; genius, no), but appeasing evangelicals makes a lot of sense, because that group put aside personal distaste because of promised red meat and Trump needs to provide that.

Also, more info on Gorsuch. Seems like he carried that anti-liberal provocateur thing/extreme positions into college (and let's be honest, probably still holds those views).

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#172140: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:12:55 AM

Gorsuch is basically the pretentious, white, prep-schooled asshole who runs your university's chapter of College Republicans, all grown up.

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:19:36 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#172141: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:17:12 AM

Dear Lord, I decide to spend my night playing XCOM 2 and I come back in the morning to this. Am I hallucinating? Dreaming? How far down the rabbit hole am I? Seriously, as a Christian I'm ashamed that Trump is using my religion as some sort of sacrificial lamb in order to justify his ridiculous policies.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172142: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:23:21 AM

I wonder if Trump wanting to remove the Johnson Amendment is a way for him to repent for his sins without going into a Confession booth to do so?

Also, I don't think even a Republican, Christian Congress will go through with it. They'd know that removing the Johnson Amendment would allow the Vatican, Muslim Groups, Atheists, Satanists and Scientologists much more power then they already have. That's the last thing they want to do.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#172143: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:27:39 AM

While not a fan of libertarianism, I do hope that reason.com is right when they say Trump's power is fragile. But I think they're naïve. These are the same kinds of people who think that "the rational free market" is both real and a good thing. Maybe they're placing too much faith in people being rational. That doesn't sound very rational to me.

Some of the comments on that article are a trip. Apparently, the Democrats are going to destroy everything to get their way - even complaining about "good policy decisions" - then when they've regained power by force or through elections they will rig the system so that they will never lose again. Oh and Trump is only doing "what a majority of voters want."

It's like the funhouse mirror version of this thread. And actually kind of entertaining.

I have to admit I don't really understand hardcore Libertarians. How would allowing people to do whatever they want without any oversight be a net good for society? Am I missing something, here?

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:28:38 AM by Pseudopartition

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#172144: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:31:54 AM

@Crimson- Thank you. That's what I was getting at but I couldn't think of a good, concise phrasing. While I know at least some people change, he comes off as a total asshole in the descriptions of him as a younger guy in a way that belies the framing of him as "principled conservative that liberals could like".

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:32:22 AM by Hodor2

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172145: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:32:40 AM

This WaPo article has a rundown of the good and bad of Gourush from a progressive view. Good, he has regularly contested overreach of executive power and while pro-religion he's not neccecarily biased in favor of Christianity. Bad: very pro-life (but also pro death-penalty), was one of the lower court judges on the Hobby Lobby case which ruled for religious exceptions to ACA-mandaded birth control coverage.

Rumor: Trump didn't oversee the SC nominee selection personally; Gorsuch is probably at worst a cookie-cutter Scalia-esque pick.

As for that stuff in the Daily Mail, I'd treat it as unverified unless backed by a better source even if they are things we'd call points against him.

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:34:45 AM by Elle

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#172146: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:38:14 AM

[up][up][up]While Libertarians come from all over, pretty much every one I have personally met was a child of privilege who never had to work for what they wanted-well off people who had a car at 16 and never wanted for anything, courtesy of parents; who worked some part time job for spending cash, got college paid for, and wondered why everyone else was such a bunch of whiners about how tough and unfair life is. The rest were Anarcho-commune wannabes who were convinced that government was useless and anyone who liked being told what to do might as well walk off a cliff rather than get poisoned by vaccinations or enslaved by socialists.

...Perceptions may vary.

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:40:09 AM by ViperMagnum357

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#172147: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:41:00 AM

<sigh> Trump is President Shinra who thinks he's Rufus...

Daesh is the GLA.

The world is turning into an aggresive game of Civ.

The video game world and ours are becoming one.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172148: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:44:52 AM

[up][up] Well, I can guarentee you that I'm neither an Anarcho-Communist, nor from a family that's well off and had everything given to me on a silver platter.tongue

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#172149: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:50:14 AM

Ah, Anarchists. People who have never experienced true anarchy thinking that absolutely no government would be a good thing.

So DeVos will hopefully be blocked. Any word on Trump's other cabinet nominations?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#172150: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:50:47 AM

[up][up][up]Like I said before, we are trapped in a particularly bad Hearts Of Iron mod. And I think the modders need to nerf that Russian action that gets their rivals saddled with shit leaders.

edited 2nd Feb '17 9:51:00 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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