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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#171501: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:10:16 AM

I am thinking more of Florida drowning. Much of California is high enough not to drown. Florida on the other hand...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#171502: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:15:29 AM

[up] The Carolinas, Georgia, and Louisiana would probably be hit rather hard too. Not as bad as Florida, but still.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#171503: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:15:47 AM

To say nothing of the southern portions of the other states on the Gulf of Mexico.

Now, if the West Coast gets nailed by the "Big One"....that's another story altogether.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171504: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:16:41 AM

[up][up] As would Virginia, Washington D.C., Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey and New York City.

Also:

A senior U.S. official says 872 refugees will be allowed into the United States this week despite the Trump administration executive order suspending the U.S. refugees program.

Kevin McAleenan, acting commissioner of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency, said these refugees would be granted waivers. He said that was allowed for under the order, in instances where refugees were ready for travel and stopping them would cause "undue hardship."

McAleenan said this was being done in concert with the State Department. He said 872 refugees will be arriving this week and will processed for waivers through the end of the week.

He was speaking at a news conference Tuesday about the administration's new immigration restrictions, which also suspends arrival by nationals from seven predominantly Muslim nations.

Expect McAleenan to lose his job soon.

edited 31st Jan '17 11:20:08 AM by DingoWalley1

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#171505: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:18:32 AM

[up] If things get to that point, the one silver lining would be that Trump Tower and Mar-a-lago would also be flooded.

edited 31st Jan '17 11:19:13 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#171506: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:19:44 AM

So, just read How to Build an Autocracy This isn't everything relevant, but its a long article, so some short(er) points... (We're effectively on the front lines of future warfare, and of a kind with no dragon to slay. At least it's not 40K.) note 

By filling the media space with bizarre inventions and brazen denials, purveyors of fake news hope to mobilize potential supporters with righteous wrath—and to demoralize potential opponents by nurturing the idea that everybody lies and nothing matters. A would-be kleptocrat is actually better served by spreading cynicism than by deceiving followers with false beliefs: Believers can be disillusioned; people who expect to hear only lies can hardly complain when a lie is exposed. The inculcation of cynicism breaks down the distinction between those forms of media that try their imperfect best to report the truth, and those that purvey falsehoods for reasons of profit or ideology. The New York Times becomes the equivalent of Russia’s RT; The Washington Post of Breitbart; NPR of Infowars.

...once the president-elect lent his prestige to the crazy claim, it became fact for many people. A survey by You Gov found that by December 1, 43 percent of Republicans accepted the claim that millions of people had voted illegally in 2016.

A clear untruth had suddenly become a contested possibility. When CNN’s Jeff Zeleny correctly reported on November 28 that Trump’s tweet was baseless, Fox’s Sean Hannity accused Zeleny of media bias—and then proceeded to urge the incoming Trump administration to take a new tack with the White House press corps, and to punish reporters like Zeleny. “I think it’s time to reevaluate the press and maybe change the traditional relationship with the press and the White House,” Hannity said. “My message tonight to the press is simple: You guys are done. You’ve been exposed as fake, as having an agenda, as colluding. You’re a fake news organization.”

“Populist-fueled democratic backsliding is difficult to counter,” wrote the political scientists Andrea Kendall-Taylor and Erica Frantz late last year. “Because it is subtle and incremental, there is no single moment that triggers widespread resistance or creates a focal point around which an opposition can coalesce … Piecemeal democratic erosion, therefore, typically provokes only fragmented resistance.” Their observation was rooted in the experiences of countries ranging from the Philippines to Hungary. It could apply here too.
If people retreat into private life, if critics grow quieter, if cynicism becomes endemic, the corruption will slowly become more brazen, the intimidation of opponents stronger. Laws intended to ensure accountability or prevent graft or protect civil liberties will be weakened.
If the president uses his office to grab billions for himself and his family, his supporters will feel empowered to take millions. If he successfully exerts power to punish enemies, his successors will emulate his methods.

Many of the worst and most subversive things Trump will do will be highly popular. Voters liked the threats and incentives that kept Carrier manufacturing jobs in Indiana...What happens in the next four years will depend heavily on whether Trump is right or wrong about how little Americans care about their democracy and the habits and conventions that sustain it. If they surprise him, they can restrain him.
Trump and his team count on one thing above all others: public indifference...Public opinion, public scrutiny, and public pressure still matter greatly in the U.S. political system. In January, an unexpected surge of voter outrage thwarted plans to neutralize the independent House ethics office. That kind of defense will need to be replicated many times. Elsewhere in this issue, Jonathan Rauch describes some of the networks of defense that Americans are creating.
If citizens learn that success in business or in public service depends on the favor of the president and his ruling clique, then it’s not only American politics that will change. The economy will be corrupted too, and with it the larger culture. A culture that has accepted that graft is the norm, that rules don’t matter as much as relationships with those in power, and that people can be punished for speech and acts that remain theoretically legal—such a culture is not easily reoriented back to constitutionalism, freedom, and public integrity.

Express your support and sympathy for journalists attacked by social-media trolls, especially women in journalism, so often the preferred targets. Honor civil servants who are fired or forced to resign because they defied improper orders. Keep close watch for signs of the rise of a culture of official impunity, in which friends and supporters of power-holders are allowed to flout rules that bind everyone else.
Those citizens who fantasize about defying tyranny from within fortified compounds have never understood how liberty is actually threatened in a modern bureaucratic state: not by diktat and violence, but by the slow, demoralizing process of corruption and deceit. And the way that liberty must be defended is not with amateur firearms, but with an unwearying insistence upon the honesty, integrity, and professionalism of American institutions and those who lead them. We are living through the most dangerous challenge to the free government of the United States that anyone alive has encountered. What happens next is up to you and me. Don’t be afraid. This moment of danger can also be your finest hour as a citizen and an American.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#171507: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:19:54 AM

Now see, a "big one" in the sense of a flood (such as the 1861-1862 floods, their medieval and prehistoric counterparts, or the smaller scenario "ARkstorm"), these might cause California to go under. Only for some months, max, though.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171508: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:27:44 AM

Rule of law is officially being disregarded. Reports from LA that US Marshals--the enforcement tool of the judiciary--are refusing to enforce the federal court orders. They've been instructed to take orders only from the US Attorney's Office. And the US Attorney's Office is dancing on the strings of some unknown party.

Everybody was so sure our institutions could protect us from autocracy. Obviously not.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#171509: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:29:19 AM

[up]Then what can protect them now?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#171510: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:30:43 AM

[up][up] So what now?

edited 31st Jan '17 11:31:07 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#171511: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:30:57 AM

[up][up] [up]Who is "everybody"???? Don't count me in there. I have said that the US-system is vulnerable for years. I learned this lesson when Bush was re.elected.

edited 31st Jan '17 11:31:25 AM by Swanpride

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#171512: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:33:02 AM

I'm sure Alex Jones and friends will begin ranting about the imminent tyrannical takeover that they've been screaming about for years.

Any second now.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171513: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:33:25 AM

[up][up] "Everybody" as in "a whole lot of people," not the people in this thread specifically.

[up][up][up],[up][up][up][up] Hell if I know. The courts are reliant on the executive branch to enforce their rulings, and the executive branch is both flipping them off and staging a coup of the US Marshals.

The new regime is flaunting their ability to ignore our courts. If this is allowed to stand, it may very well be all over for us, because it means that they have literally no checks on their power. With control of every branch of government, and complete contempt for federal law, they are answerable to no one.

edited 31st Jan '17 11:33:36 AM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171514: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:34:47 AM

And I was right: The Marshals are dependent on the Executive, not the Judicial. All the absolute more reason we need a Law Force that answers only to Courts and Justices, and not any Executive.

I'm thinking about starting a Militia just to start enforcing Court Orders at this point!

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#171515: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:35:15 AM

[up][up] Of course they won't allow such jackshit!

edited 31st Jan '17 11:35:35 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171516: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:37:06 AM

But who's "they?" Who has the power to actually hold them accountable right now?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171517: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:37:55 AM

[up] We, as Citizens, do.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171518: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:39:30 AM

[up] We're pretty much the only remaining barrier between the US and authoritarianism, yes. Our leaders' hands are tied and our institutions have been corrupted. We're on our own, and it's been that way for a while.

But what, practically, can we do? March in the streets and be ignored, then possibly arrested once they manage to pass their laws criminalizing protest?

They protested the Nazis too. It's not enough by itself.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#171519: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:40:40 AM

Do we have set term for Trump?

I've seen Cheeto Benito, Darth Hairpiece, one guy refers to him as MC TinyHands...

edited 31st Jan '17 11:40:58 AM by HextarVigar

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#171520: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:41:04 AM

[up]Strikes from workers as well, and even Congress actions from Democrats.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171521: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:43:14 AM

In the United States, we have the right to arrest those who violate the law, even if we are not law enforcement. Citizen's Arrests are legal through out the whole United States. If anything, the Lawyers and Citizens who were denied the right to meet with those Detained, should have used their right to Arrest those who do not follow the Courts.

In the United States, we also have the right to form Militia's and to keep and bear arms. We can form independent Militias to prevent any Police or Military Force from ignoring the Courts and attacking American Citizens.

This is what we must do to protect America's democracy.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#171522: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:48:00 AM

Keep your back straight and lock shields against tyranny. That seems like a good thing right now.

edited 31st Jan '17 11:48:23 AM by Kayeka

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171523: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:51:38 AM

What are we going to do, march into Dulles and declare we're arresting every CBP official who won't comply with the court order? Do the same for the US Marshals, ICE, and DHS? Best case scenario, they laugh in our faces. Worst case, they arrest us.

Let's say we do, somehow, place them under citizen's arrest. Who's going to charge and sentence them? The institutions that are coming apart at the seams before our very eyes? The courts who are being utterly ignored by the government?

And forming actual armed militias in resistance to the Trump regime? Best case scenario there is a slaughter when the government sends out troops to "restore order." Worst case, civil war. We've talked a lot about the possibility of a second American Civil War—taking up arms in defiance of the government, however justified it may be, would be a good way to kickstart it.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#171524: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:53:37 AM

[up] First, let's wait up until the Dems in congress take action for it.

And the best case should be that not even the Republican soldiers will try and dare to shoot their own people, and even the officers will defy what Trump says.

edited 31st Jan '17 11:54:54 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#171525: Jan 31st 2017 at 11:54:42 AM

Again, slow down. I haven't seen this report confirmed by reputable news sources yet, it's only on twitter. Even if true, it's only the LA office, meaning that something like 95% of all US Marshalls are still doing their job. Most of the government are still doing their jobs.

But in the end? If nothing works? We get a huge crowd together and we escort those people out of the airports. Then we shut down the major cities, and we make governing the country impossible. What can they do, shoot us? Historically, when democratic regimes shoot non-violent protesters, it doesn't end well for them. The last one to try it was Nixon, and we all know what happened to him.

Another thing to remember- none of this is new, it has all happened before.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

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