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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171276: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:11:52 PM

[up] An executive order can't make Gay Marriage Illegal; the Supreme Court has made Gay Marriage Legal through out the whole country. Any EO that tries to do that would be immediately challenged and found Unconstitutional.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#171277: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:12:06 PM

Yeah, I post on a few subreddits and I think each subreddit has its own particular culture. It's easy to find Trump supporters there mostly because it's such a big place.

Also, I would really not be surprised if their plan is to post order after ridiculous order on a daily to weekly basis to exhaust the population early. I don't really know what you all are supposed to do about that either.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#171278: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:15:15 PM

[up]x4 and [up]Of course I know that, I'm a lot on /r/Enoughtrumpspam, /r/bluemidterm2018 (guys, check that one out, it may be useful), /r/Askhistorians, /r/Askliterarystudies, and some of the other sane (sane-ish?) subs. The thing is that Reddit does have site-wide rules (even if it may not look like it), and the_donald, altright, and similar cesspools the shittiest parts of humanity have extensively broken those rules, but they only ban those kinds of subs when they appear on the news.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#171279: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:17:39 PM

Crossposting from Canadian politics:

After Quebec shooting, white nationalists, Twitter bots, and Fox News spread misinformation.

Fabricated details about the horrendous crime in Quebec City, which left six worshipers dead and more than a dozen others wounded, were promoted by an army of bots and high-profile right-wing commentators.

...

But before police in Quebec had offered any details about what occurred during the attack, RT News, a state-owned Russian company, issued an alert that appeared on every page of its website claiming the shooter shouted "God is great" in Arabic while carrying out the murders. Fox News followed suit. The report was wholly unverified, originating from an anonymous tip provided to a Canadian radio station early Monday morning.

...

The concerted spread of misinformation goes to show that even terrorist attacks targeting Muslim communities can be spun by white nationalists to inflame resentment towards Muslims and refugees.

This was exemplified by none other than White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer, who inexplicably used the attack - once again, carried out by a Canadian citizen - as evidence of why Trump's travel ban on Muslim-majority countries was necessary.

I mean, this is sort of a "water is wet" thing, but it's a good example of how fast misinformation is going to spread, now.

This was almost certainly a cowardly terrorist attack carried out on innocent people - don't let anyone forget that.

edited 30th Jan '17 4:18:16 PM by Pseudopartition

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171280: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:28:40 PM

Trump has backed away from Investigating "Illegal Voting", at least according to Sean Spicer. They're still spreading the lie of 3-5 Million Illegal Votes, though.

That's one Victory, at least, but we've gotta make sure Trump doesn't try to sneak an Investigation while we're not looking.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#171281: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:38:02 PM

Seah Spicer is the new Iraqi Information Minister (I should do that photoshop mashup if not beaten to it) and I'd take anything he says as false unless it's independently confirmed.

Reading the comments of that /r/military thread, this jumped out:

Stazu Retired USMC 8 points 4 hours ago

The reason (Sec. Def. Mattis) garners so much respect is that he has constantly been an advocate for both officers and enlisted. He has real world experience and is the most qualified for the position. You should be really really fucking glad that he is sec def. because if the president asks him to do something unlawful with the military that will fall on the service members when it comes crashing down he will refuse. I am not sure anyone else that trump would nominate would. At the end I will take the potential for a military junta over a fucking yes man that's going to get my brothers and sisters killed.

iflewaway someone from somewhere Since: Dec, 2016
someone
#171282: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:38:59 PM

This is somewhat unrelated, but I'm worried that, given Trump's extreme anti-intellectualism, Pence's fundamentalism, and Bannon's megalomania, it's only a matter of time before they start trying to censor art and entertainment. They already want to control how people think, and the United States already has a history of censorship. And, while not censorship, Trump is planning to eliminate the National Endowment for The Arts, which doesn't bode well. I hope my fears are unjustified and I'm simply overreacting, but I really don't know anymore.

edited 30th Jan '17 4:59:53 PM by iflewaway

something
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#171283: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:48:45 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. I don't know that it's going to be something they're going to be worried about just at this moment, but censoring art is what all autocracies do. It happened in my country and artists had to be very subtle in order to get past the censors.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#171284: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:50:11 PM

I don't think they'll directly censor art (at first), but simply starve it instead, as you already cited. And perhaps provide incentives only if they like what they see.

Of course, massive corporations would have the least to worry about should that be the case. Even now, punishing businesses seems more far-fetched than murdering civilians. See.[down]

edited 30th Jan '17 4:55:15 PM by Eschaton

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#171286: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:52:23 PM

On the subject of how the military feels about Trump. I have American friends (current and former military) who have been working hard share across Social Media, solidarity with opposing Trump's presidency (and they are a mixture of Democrat and Republican voters).

In particular, Bannon's role in the NSC worries them deeply. They keep spreading the word that one of the NSC's jobs is to neutralise any threat to American security, no due process - the decision is made and carried out... that 'threat' includes the execution of American citizens deemed to be a threat to national security. Bannon's role puts him in charge of that — it's that, more than anything, that has them, and their military connections trying to educate anyone who will listen about what the NSC's job entails.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171287: Jan 30th 2017 at 4:59:30 PM

[up][up] What are the odds that Trump's going to cancel that Business meeting now that the Uber CEO made a stink over this Ban? Or at least, kick him out of the Group?

Still, most of the Business leaders going to that meeting are very Liberal. They might finally get Trump to realize that what he's doing is highly, highly toxic to America, especially American Businesses.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#171288: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:08:38 PM

Or he'll pull off whatever trick it is that lets him convince people to get on board with his batshittery. In any case, I don't much think they'll be able to convince him of anything that Bannon and co, who will have much more frequent access to him, will be able to sway him away from.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#171289: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:10:39 PM

On the subject of that list, here's a thing about Elon Musk and why his name on that list shouldn't be taken as an automatic black mark. He's not exactly stopping his plans to take his (environmental-leaning) businesses global, he is investing big in automation, he's still in favor of a carbon tax.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#171290: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:10:39 PM

O'Reilly is trying to justify the ban and Krauthammer is letting him have it. I wish I had popcorn.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#171291: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:21:47 PM

Starving is a method of censorship.

You know how policy is formed or opposed, don't you? It requires evidence. Which requires statistical analysis. Which requires data collection.

Poverty statistics, immigration statistics, abortion statistics, teenage pregnancy statistics, homeownership statistics, pollution statistics, environmental statistics, LGBT+ statistics, disability statistics.... demography statistics that contribute to political boundary decisions (impartially or via gerrymandering). And so on.

Well, US statisticians have been talking to The Guardian and they're very, very concerned about how Trump's administration will be using and abusing and funding statistics. While all of this chaos has been going on with the Muslim ban, the Republicans have put through Bills that will render the 2015 Housing Regulation toothless simply by defunding the data collection of the statistics (on racial segregation in housing) that the regulation requires to function.

By defunding data collection, statistical evidence dries up.

If there are no statistics, there is no proof.

Without proof, activists lose the power of their argument. Worse, they cannot make the argument.

Even worse, regulations and laws that require statistical evidence can no longer function.

And, the worst scenario of all... replacing the gap via private companies who can keep their agendas and methodologies secret, escape both national and international statistical oversight and therefore create statistics to fit any narrative desired for the right price.

In short, social statistics (and therefore social laws and programmes) are under threat, whereas big business needs economic statistics so economic statistics might possibly be okay if businesses successfully lobby for them.

Link:

Statisticians fear Trump White House will manipulate figures to fit narrative

Wallman, like other statisticians the Guardian spoke to, believes that a number system which consists of accurate, publicly available government data is currently under threat.

In a press conference on Monday, the White House spokesman, Sean Spicer, told journalists: “The president, he’s not focused on statistics as much as he is on whether or not the American people are doing better as a whole.” But without statistics, measuring how “the American people are doing” is simply a matter of opinion.

It’s not the first time the president’s team has questioned public data. In August, the then presidential candidate described the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) unemployment numbers as “phoney”, claiming: “The 5% figure is one of the biggest hoaxes in American modern politics.” In the same speech, Trump suggested alternative data, adding: “The number’s probably 28, 29, as high as 35. In fact, I even heard recently 42%.”

During the first week of his presidency, external communication by the EPA and the interior, agriculture and health departments was halted.

Speaking on the phone in the first days of her retirement, Wallman explained that many new administrations “don’t necessarily understand the autonomy of the statistical agencies”. Other statisticians have described a range of ways in which public data might be influenced by the Trump administration.

The most frequently cited is simply the defunding of specific statistical programs. This is already under way. Two Republican-sponsored bills are attempting to nullify a 2015 housing regulation aimed at addressing racial segregation in cities such as Baltimore and Chicago, simply by halting data collection. The new bills, which together are titled the Local Zoning Decisions Protection Act of 2017, state that “no Federal funds may be used to design, build, maintain, utilize, or provide access to a Federal database of geospatial information on community racial disparities”.

Defunding public data is also an effective tool in silencing activists. As a former Census Bureau employee explained: “You can’t talk about discrimination if there’s no data there to support it.” The employee, like most of the statisticians the Guardian spoke with, asked not to be named for fear that they would not be able to work for federal agencies in the future.

But many statisticians believe that economic indicators are likely to be protected from possible manipulation by the administration because the business community relies so heavily on accurate numbers. Indeed, Erica Groshen, the outgoing head of the BLS, expressed the most optimism of any of the statisticians interviewed.

There are also concerns about the increasing involvement of the private sector in public data collection. Kenneth Prewitt, former director of the US Census Bureau and currently professor of public affairs at Columbia University, posited a scenario in which a private company was responsible for population counts and its methodology was not publicly available. Then, Prewitt explains, it’s possible that the company would use less rigorous methods that could “count some people twice and others not at all. And if you can leave people out of the census selectively, you can actually affect, eventually, the drawing of legislative boundaries at the local level, the state level and of course at the federal level.”

According to Prewitt, there are simple ways to make adjustments to the way data is calculated that affects the final numbers.

“What people do not understand,” he explained: “If you control the denominator, you control everything.”

Denominators are used in virtually every single public statistic. For example, the Census Bureau publishes data which shows that one in four US Hispanics lives in poverty (specifically, 11.2 million out of 48.2 million Hispanics in the US). To change that statistic, you can either change people’s lives or, more simply, you can change the way that you count who is and who is not Hispanic – then, the statistic can become one in three, one in 10, one in whatever.

As a former Census Bureau statistician explained, once you change the statistics, “you can write your own narrative. You can tell people how sick they are or how safe they are.”

edited 30th Jan '17 5:35:41 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#171292: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:47:04 PM

Regarding art, I fear quiet starvation more than overt oppression. I want Bannon to gather all the work and put it in the slums, where people will know where to see them. God forgive me, I want Trump to go after LGBTQ rights as loud as possible, just like he's persecuting Muslims. Because if he's quiet, I can guarantee that we'll just have a repeat of the election, where half the country stood aside with their thumbs up their ass, and all those #Trump Regrets decided that they weren't at risk.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171293: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:48:19 PM

Thread on how the only hope of beating Trump and his cronies is to unite and organize immediately. And also a key point—look at what Bannon and company have done in their first week. Multiply that by two years. Does anyone actually think they're going to risk having free elections, be it the midterms or the presidency?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#171294: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:50:54 PM

You know, I've been thinking, has anyone else, thought, with all the crap that's gone on in the past week and a half that we're at the tip of the iceberg?

I just can't shake the feeling that shit hasn't gotten real quite yet.

Something is coming. What exactly, I don't know.

New Survey coming this weekend!
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171295: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:52:22 PM

[up] Better believe it. We're only what, ten days in? Ten days of four years?

I'm sorry to say it, but it's going to get much worse from here. It's gotten worse every single day since the election—no reason to think it's going to stop any time soon.

All the more reason to unite and organize now, while we still can.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#171296: Jan 30th 2017 at 5:57:55 PM

So... 10 days down, 1451 to go.

Great.

Well, at least I can pass the time in good company?

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171297: Jan 30th 2017 at 6:01:33 PM

Damn right. Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we live in an authoritarian kleptocracy.note 

The ACLU vows to fight any anti-LGBT executive orders just as they are fighting the Muslim ban. Those donations they received are going to be put to good use pretty soon.

Also, did people hear that the ACLU has received nearly $25 million in donations since Saturday? For reference, the usual sum total of donations they receive in a year is about $3-4 million.

edited 30th Jan '17 6:01:44 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#171298: Jan 30th 2017 at 6:04:19 PM

Yeah, something tells me that the worst has yet to come. Guys like him don't just leave the freedom to oppose him open.

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#171299: Jan 30th 2017 at 6:17:20 PM

Well, technically, I live in Canada, but since we are wedged right between an authoritarian kleptocracy... and Russia, it's not exactly a stable situation.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#171300: Jan 30th 2017 at 6:17:48 PM

Something is coming. What exactly, I don't know.
The Day of the Jackboot (as in I would not be surprised if there are parades of literal jackbooted thugs for the anniversary of his inauguration), the death of liberty, and the subversion and inversion of the founding ideals of the USA.

Welcome to the Free American Empire and just remember, this all could have been prevented except EMAILS MAN, EMAILS.

edited 30th Jan '17 6:19:10 PM by Balmung


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