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DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171201: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:09:22 PM

[up] That's part of the reason why I think the Judiciary Branch really needs some way to enforce it's ruling: Some force of their own that, when people disobey their direct orders, they can send their force to arrest those that disobey them. A Federal Judiciary Force (FJF) if you will.

There's no way under Trump's administration it'll happen, but maybe that's something the next Democrat President can create.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#171202: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:10:07 PM

But what purpose would faking a rogue twitter account serve? Discredit the opposition by luring them into outrage over fake decrees? That would require Trump not creating real outrage over real decrees. Undermine Trump? He does that all on his own.

The most logical reason for doubting it being real isn't that it's a conspiracy, but that it is simply communicating specific details that can't be verified, while at the same time communicating something that everybody already knows: that the white house is a shitshow.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:10:29 PM by Eschaton

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171203: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:10:22 PM

A Washington Post columnist says he has reliable information suggesting that an anti-LGBT EO is indeed in the pipe. Again, important to note that this doesn't necessarily verify the Rogue POTUS account as legit.

But either way, better brace ourselves. I have a feeling we know what next weekend's protest is going to be about.

[up] To create misinformation while obfuscating their true agenda, and perhaps creating the illusion of weakness in places where there is none, causing the opposition force to waste their energy.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:11:20 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#171204: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:11:21 PM

Here's a thing, though- if courts can just be arbitrarily ignored, so can executive orders.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171205: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:12:00 PM

Not when the executive orders are coming from someone who has nearly unchecked control of the government.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
iflewaway someone from somewhere Since: Dec, 2016
someone
#171206: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:12:22 PM

[up][up] No, because the Executive branch has the power to enforce laws.

[up][nja]

edited 30th Jan '17 2:12:54 PM by iflewaway

something
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#171207: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:13:04 PM

[up][up][up][up] The same disinformation chaff that the Kremlin uses to make it extremely difficult to gague the intentions of Russian leadership, and secretly compromising the opposition, once again a classic Russian tactic.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:14:08 PM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#171208: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:13:05 PM

[up][up]The executive branch, however, is the one granted the power of enforcing laws and such by the Constitution. The courts have very little in the way of compulsive power, relying mainly on law enforcement to make their rulings stick. Congress, similarly, has no army — when it comes down to it, they're just a bunch of folks in a pretty building voting on stuff.

The executive branch has the police, the army, the Secret Service, the vast array of lawyers — it has all the operational and enforcement business of government. If Trump owns that, then Congress and the Supreme Court can issue laws and rulings until they're blue in the face. We will have seen a true coup d'etat in this nation. The only people with the power to fight it will be that self-same military and police force. Plus possibly individual states declaring war and mobilizing their National Guard forces.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:14:50 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#171209: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:14:24 PM

@Dingo: That's what the US Marshals are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marshals_Service

There is a legal step between now and calling them in though and that's a contempt of court charge, which is in the process of being fought for at least for Dulles (DC) Airport.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#171210: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:14:52 PM

[up] [up] another reason presidential democracies are dangerously prone to dictatorships.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:15:20 PM by CaptainCapsase

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#171211: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:15:09 PM

But the executive is unchecked, unchained, unchallenged, unhinged. We gotta make an all-out stand. Ayo we gotta impeach Trump now.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171212: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:15:32 PM

And that's what's so terrifying. Because by all appearances, that is exactly what we are witnessing unfold before our very eyes—a coup of the government, and open defiance of the law.

I mean, CBP officials are ignoring a federal court order and freezing out Congresspeople who attempt to intervene. Don't forget the Judicial branch of government mysteriously disappearing last night, the timing of which cannot be ignored. We may very well be through the looking glass here.

[up] Hear, hear. It may already be too late.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:16:05 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#171213: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:15:35 PM

No, see, all it needs is for the people who would be doing the enforcing to be the ones doing the ignoring.

Like, for example, that one EO that might be coming about forcing two regulations to be removed for every new one introduced. If the GOP says 'yeah, no, we're not doing that', then that's the end of that.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#171214: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:15:50 PM

Exactly. The Executive Branch of Government is the Enforcing the Law Branch of Government, they control the Police, Military and Special Forces of the entire Country. Executive Orders, however, give the President partial Legislative, IE Law Creating, Powers, so long as they don't require a budget, which is solely Congress's power. The Judicial Branch, the weakest Branch in the Constitution, can only Interpret the Laws based on the Constitution and other laws, and that's it.

The Judicial Branch needs to have an Armed Force of their own to enforce their Interpretation of the law. And I really really think that Executive Orders should be outlawed.

[down] Well, crap. That's worse then denying Transgenders the Right to the Right Bathroom.

I bet so many "Gays for Trump" will be so infuriated. This move might literally kill the Log Cabin Republican Movement...

[down][down][down] Considering that the Marshals is a part of the Department of Justice (a part of the Executive Branch of Government) which is headed by the US Attorney General, I'm going to say: No, they are not. They are entirely dependent on the Executive Branch, not the Judicial Branch. I am proposing a Law Enforcement Agency that only answers to Courts and Justices, not to an Executive Department.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:21:54 PM by DingoWalley1

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#171215: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:16:40 PM

A White House official speaking on the condition of anonymity has told NCRM that high ranking officials in the Trump administration are discussing the preparation of an executive order which would roll back and nullify President Barack Obama's 2014 executive orders (photo above: signing) which protect employees from anti-LGBT workplace discrimination while working for federal contractors.

President Barack Obama's orders protect approximately one in five workers across the nation.

The official also acknowledged that discussions have included creating what would amount to a loophole allowing federal employees to discriminate or refuse service on the basis of "sincerely-held religious beliefs."

The White House did not immediately respond to NCRM's request for comment.

There are no religious exemptions in the executive orders President Obama signed.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/brody_levesque/exclusive_sources_possible_executive_order_to_roll_back_obama_s_federal_protections_for_lgbt_employees_in_the_works

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#171216: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:17:55 PM

[up][up]You can't outlaw executive orders. They're covered under separation of powers; the President uses them to execute the duties of his office. Normally, Congress determines those duties, but if the executive branch openly defies both Congress and the courts, then it's really up to the institutional ethics of the men and women whose job it is to uphold the Constitution over any one President's whims. Can Trump compel the nation's police and military to do his bidding? If so, we are royally screwed.

[down] There aren't enough Marshals to offer more than token resistance against the national military apparatus. Their job is to serve warrants, apprehend and deliver fugitives, and such, not to fight civil wars.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:19:27 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#171217: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:18:11 PM

Thread is moving to fast, see above: the US Marshals are the enforcement arm of the Judiciary.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171218: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:18:41 PM

[up][up][up] So we're going to have to fight this, while simultaneously keeping up the pressure on the Muslim ban. And they're just getting started.

There is a real risk of the resistance being overwhelmed through sheer volume of bullshit here.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:19:00 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#171219: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:19:34 PM

And that's exactly what Trump and Pence and Bannon want.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#171220: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:20:38 PM

Whether Bannon really intends to do so or not, he has taken his approach right out of the manual for How to Turn a Functioning Democracy into a Autocracy in Two Weeks. Look in the "X For Dummies" section of your local bookstore.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:21:29 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#171221: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:21:37 PM

@Outlawing EO:, Should they, though? Obama wrote them out despite ignorance and resistance, and protected many an innocent's subsistance.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:22:10 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#171222: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:21:58 PM

[up][up] There is no doubt in my mind that that is exactly his intention. This is, to put it mildly, no accident.

edited 30th Jan '17 2:22:08 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#171223: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:22:17 PM

@Fighter: But they can butt heads with Customs and Border Patrol to uphold the court orders against the ban and/or arrest their officers for contempt of court charges.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#171224: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:23:41 PM

I'm amazed that Trump gets away with so much from such a weak mandate...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#171225: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:23:55 PM

@Elle: It all depends on whether local and national law enforcement respect court rulings over orders handed down by their superiors. If the Chief Executive says "deport 'em" and the courts say "don't deport 'em", how many LEOs will obey? This is the truest test of our democratic institutions. How many LEOs believe the racist rhetoric themselves?

edited 30th Jan '17 2:24:32 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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