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Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#170976: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:29:12 AM

[up] Well, pessimism is far worse, it causes to lose all hope and even the feeling for a better tomorrow and see the bright side of things to come with people who are willing to the right thing, Hope never disappear and never will and you shouldn't assume the worst of the worst always.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#170977: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:32:28 AM

I'm getting a bit concerned that the earliest time I could plausibly skip town (Summer 2018) will already be too late. I pray that the US functions mostly as normal until the Dems take back Congress or the White House.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#170978: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:33:30 AM

Psht, I'm not talking pessimism. I'm talking pragmatism. Yes, there's still hope, of course there is, but it's extremely dangerous to just assume that means things will work out for the best.

Also, 'something like [X] could never happen in the US' is quite possibly the worst attitude you can take with this. People said the same thing about Nazis taking over the White House, and look where we are.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#170979: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:35:23 AM

Yep. Most of this is new for the US, but other countries which have gone through authoritarian regimes already know how it goes. That's why this is so chilling, because some countries have yet to get out of those regimes, or at best alternate between authoritarianism and brief periods of democracy (which is what happened in my country, and wouldn't you know it someone even worse than Trump has all the momentum for the 2018 elections).

Like, there's no point beating around the bush anymore. For all intents and purposes, Trump's government is already fascist in any meaningful sense of the word, we're just not at the level of say nazi germany quite yet.

edited 30th Jan '17 12:36:07 AM by Draghinazzo

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#170980: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:36:26 AM

You do know that, in the story of Pandora's Box, that Hope was actually the worst evil of them all, right? And that it being stuck in the box at the end was a good thing?

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#170981: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:40:06 AM

I believe that hope is our biggest strength, but blind optimism won't get us anywhere. That being said, neither will blind pessimism or panic (which I know is rich coming from me)

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#170982: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:42:08 AM

[up] They're not exactly Nazis, not just yet!

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#170983: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:44:34 AM

[up][up] That's what I was trying to say, just as Rogue One said: "Rebellions are built on hope."

Hope is vital for us all, I know how bad things are looking but that doesn't mean I must think it will mean a bleak and hopeless future for us all, there's always the way to push forward for a better tomorrow.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#170984: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:46:36 AM

They're not exactly Nazis, not just yet!

They're Nazis. Their ideology is identical to Nazis, they're using Nazi symbols, they're Nazis.

Just. Stop. Don't justify what they're doing.

edited 30th Jan '17 12:48:56 AM by unnoun

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#170985: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:47:07 AM

[up] I WASN'T JUSTIFYING THEM AT FUCKING AT ALL!

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#170987: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:49:45 AM

they're using Nazi symbols

Not that I disagree with your overall point, but which symbols have they used so far? I recall a while back Trump retweeted some antisemitic symbol but otherwise I did not receive this memo.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#170988: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:50:16 AM

[up][up][up]I believe she's aware you weren't actually doing that, just warning you off going any further.

But, yeah, nazis are nazis.

edited 30th Jan '17 12:50:34 AM by Gilphon

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#170989: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:50:46 AM

I'm thinking of all the Trump supporters that literally sieg heiled him a while back.

The guy that got punched after being caught sieg heiling Trump on camera.

[up] Yeah, I was aware, sorry.

Sorry if I was too harsh, but.

Nazis exist and their voices are being heard and they feel represented, and based on Bannon they seem to be (alt)right about that.

edited 30th Jan '17 1:04:40 AM by unnoun

Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#170990: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:53:23 AM

My question is, if Tianneman Square is in our future, is there any way to escape. Its seems like every time something positive happens we later learn that its simply a part of Trump's larger plan. It seems like the only way for this madness to end is through civil war, and since the right-wing controls the army and all of the heavily armed civilian militias I doubt that we'd win any civil war.

I don't want to live in a country like this, I don't want to live in a country ruled by an autocrat who uses his near unlimited power to oppress the poor, weak, and marginalized. I don't want to live in a nation where birth control is banned. But I also don't want to die, especially since it seems that my sacrifice would be meaningless. I just want to escape, I want so badly to escape.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#170991: Jan 30th 2017 at 12:55:32 AM

I mean.

I feel like the Silicon Valley tech companies and also the state of California could probably bankroll a pretty bitchin' army just in terms of money.

Take a while though probably. Too long.

In terms of cyberwarfare they could probably cripple the U.S. and the stock market until their demands were met.

edited 30th Jan '17 1:00:03 AM by unnoun

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#170992: Jan 30th 2017 at 1:00:55 AM

Hmm...

How much of the US Army defected to the CSA during the civil war?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#170993: Jan 30th 2017 at 1:02:31 AM

I mean, the thing is a lot of the infantry right now seemingly sides with Trump based on polls.

But Trump also keeps pissing off the officers by cutting them out of the loop. And putting Bannon in charge of them.

So? I dunno how that'd go this time around.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#170994: Jan 30th 2017 at 1:03:39 AM

The neo-nazis ARE being represented, there's no real question about that. The muslim ban is a really obvious xenophobic and racist measure, cloaking it in facile excuses like "america first" and "safety" doesn't change that. It's possible to revamp or talk about immigration without being malevolent, but this is very transparently not it. It is the very definition of a reactionary measure, and by that I mean that it was sloppily put together as quickly as possible to assert Trumpistan's status quo.

edited 30th Jan '17 1:06:34 AM by Draghinazzo

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#170995: Jan 30th 2017 at 1:05:47 AM

The thing you guys are missing is that while neither the courts nor Congress have a military with which to stop Trump the states kinda do.

If Trump tries to pull a Tiananmen Square in a Dem state he may well end up having the army troops he orders in face down against national guard regiments mobilised by the governor of the state.

Now obviously this means he can crush dissent more easily in Republican lead states but that may well cause a population drain, as people flee said states to escape the firing squads.

Also the military's loyalty to Trump over the constitution is highly questionable. The troops like him enough to vote for him, that's not the same as enough to gun down their countrymen for him. The officer class don't even like him enough to vote for him, nevermind enough to order their troops to shoot civilians.

Finally Trump is already driving the military away from him, kicking the chairmen of the joint chiefs off the national security council will not have made Trump any friends.

edited 30th Jan '17 1:06:45 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#170996: Jan 30th 2017 at 1:12:38 AM

I know my cousin in the Air Force has no love for him, at least.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#170997: Jan 30th 2017 at 1:32:21 AM

How much of the US Army defected to the CSA during the civil war?

I know most of the experienced officers defected.

The South had and still has today a strong military culture.

In today's world:

44% of all military recruits come from the South. Mostly Republican states.

20 % come from the Mid-West. Mostly Republican states.

16% come from the Pacific states. All Democrat states. (11% comes from California which is the state that puts the most people in the military)

3.6% come from New England.

10.1% come from the Middle Atlantic (New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey)

And the 7.5 % come from the Mountain Division (New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming) Only 3 of these states are Democrat. 4 are Republican.

https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/234387674/State-Enlistments?skip_app_promo=true

edited 30th Jan '17 1:33:27 AM by MadSkillz

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#170998: Jan 30th 2017 at 1:44:12 AM

How much of those troops from the South are minorities?

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#171000: Jan 30th 2017 at 2:05:50 AM

Yeah where one comes from only matters if Trump tries to order troops to shoot civilians, as they won't shoot folks from their own region even if they would shoot civilians in general. That might well stop Trump from going authoritarian nutjob on protests in the South and Mid-East, which leaves him with the North-East, West Coast and New England, all areas where he could end up with Democratic governors sending in their state's national guard units to oppose a Trump ordered murder of civilians.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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