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IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#170851: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:05:50 PM

Just a question, how much, if any, of the partisanship of the SCOTUS was Scalia's doing?

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#170852: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:09:39 PM

I never felt so happy in all my life before. To see people stand up against the tyrant and his hate mongering foes. It actually gives me faith in humanity to such a level of degree that I feel alive. Machiavelli Was Wrong. Humans Are Good indeed.

I want everyone to see this and share to remind what it means to be an American!!!!

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#170853: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:10:45 PM

[up][up]Partisanship in the SCOTUS has been there from the start, but it did not really take off until Andrew Jackson, who appointed 6 Justices and packed the court with several friends; that pretty much killed any apolitical aspirations of the Judicial Branch.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#170854: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:25:04 PM

So wait, is Trump really trying to ignore the court's rulings? I knew a constitutional crisis was more or less inevitable under Trump, but I didn't expect it this early.

If the Republicans don't stand up to him soon even in the face of mounting resistance, we might have until the midterm elections to stop Trump's clique from entrenching itself in Washington.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#170855: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:26:16 PM

Yeah he's basically flaunting the fact that he's getting away with this. Fuck him.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#170856: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:26:52 PM

Impeachment time, I say. One week of this shit was more than enough.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#170857: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:28:23 PM

[up] That requires the support of the GOP, and I'm not sure they're prepared to say no to him. Perhaps they've decided they're already in too deep to turn back.

edited 29th Jan '17 5:28:47 PM by CaptainCapsase

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#170858: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:28:56 PM

I am aware. Although a couple of them seem to be testing their boundaries.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#170859: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:30:53 PM

I think a lot depends on how he reacts when/if the GOP in Congress defy him for the first time. If he flips out on them/the courts and tries to ram his agenda through, they might turn on him quickly. Especially if his numbers plummet even further.

edited 29th Jan '17 5:33:06 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#170860: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:33:10 PM

Well, McCain and Graham spoke out against the Muslim ban, and he went on Twitter and accused them of trying to start World War 3. They can't have appreciated that—although the questions is if this will piss them off, or cow them. (My money's on cow, given their history.)

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#170861: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:33:41 PM

I'm honestly expecting Congress to get fed up by the 6th Month mark (which should be about the time the Recession starts) and, if not outright impeach him, then just constantly yell and defy him and defund almost anything he wants to do.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#170862: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:37:25 PM

Via Twitter:

Thomas Pluck ‏@thomaspluck 8h8 hours ago

The senate is three votes short of blocking Betsy De Vos. If you live in ME, TN, AK, GA, UT, NC, WY, LA, KS, SC, or KY, call your senators.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#170863: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:42:22 PM

Well, the Supreme Court was rather weak in the early days of the republic. It took justices from Marshall to Warren to increase its strength. Warren might have seen its apex, when the court was able to order federal officers to a cause, bypassing the executive.

And, as this cycle has demonstrated, all constitutions are at least partially unwritten, since no parchment can regulate everything. The norms, values, tacit understandings and courtesy procedures we're used to have already been largely disrupted or cast aside by now. (The year-long court confirmation hiatus comes to mind and that was before Trump came to power).
The constitutional crisis has already started. After this societal low, if we're so fortunate as to have a democratic transition in 2-4 years, the new class of public officials will have to build a political culture in the country all over again.

On Scalia and the Supreme Court 

...Few justices have been as prolific as Scalia in fabricating new constitutional rights. Scalia, after all, is the justice who vehemently endorses a concocted First Amendment right for corporations and plutocrats to spend unlimited sums of cash on electioneering. He also endorsed the court’s totally made up principle of “equal sovereignty,” a nonsense doctrine the conservative justices invented to strike down part of the Voting Rights Act.

Of course, Scalia’s finest moment as a constitutional fabricator arrived at the climax of Bush v. Gore, when he joined an opinion espousing the weirdest theory of equal protection ever expounded. Scalia does not believe that the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment protects gay people’s right to marry. But he does believe the very same clause protected Florida voters in the 2000 presidential election from being subjected to a recount. This recount, the court alleged, would somehow violate the “equal dignity owed to each voter” in Florida. To Scalia, then, the idea of equal dignity for same-sex couples is laughable—but equal dignity for Republican voters in Florida is a constitutional imperative.
The author may not realize it, but nothing in that article is particularly strange. Under the same Supreme Court US officials taking a ladder and peering over your fence isn't a search under 4th amendment law, nor is breaking through multiple barbed wire fences to look inside a shack so long as the shack's door isn't locked and the windows are uncovered.

Politics are everywhere, and Scalia is just as much part of the mold as the others.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#170865: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:51:08 PM

[up][up]That's assuming we'll even have a democratic transition. Either we have a democratic transition, or we have no transitions ever again, or We The People force a transition at gunpoint. And I'm honestly not sure which one it's going to be.

edited 29th Jan '17 5:51:26 PM by kkhohoho

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#170866: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:59:24 PM

First US Operation under Trump results in 30 dead Yemeni people, ranging from Terrorists to Women and Children, as well as a US Commando. 3 Additional Soldiers were injured in the Raid.

I'd say this is was a failure; but what should I expect with Trump not listening to anyone but 7 people with little to no Military experience?

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#170867: Jan 29th 2017 at 5:59:39 PM

As shitty as Betsy Devos is, if faced with the choice, if I had to make a choice, I'd let her go through than fucking Jeff Sessions setting race relations back a hundred years.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170868: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:00:11 PM

Yeah . . . all Trump needs is a general who backs him and some Delta Force or Green Berets who care more about killing people than protecting, and any senators who manage to actually block him better get protection. At that point we'd be headed for a military-based Civil War when the ones loyal to the constitution try to oust him by force and his cult following protect him.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#170869: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:09:25 PM

If Graham and Mc Cain had a spine I feel the best comeback on Trump's platform of choice would be a tweet saying "At least we're not starting Civil War II".

Accompanied by an actual in-depth policy explanation/statement because they're both more competent than he is.

EDIT: I feel weird and kinda dirty rooting for Mc Cain and Graham, but that's where I'm at right now.

edited 29th Jan '17 6:19:08 PM by unnoun

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#170870: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:19:35 PM

[up][up]No he doesn't. (That might be the way he goes, being, you know, Trump). But the FBI is more than capable of covert social control. In part from the COINTELPRO article:

  • Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.
  • Psychological warfare: The FBI and police used myriad "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists. They used bad-jacketing to create suspicion about targeted activists, sometimes with lethal consequences.
  • Harassment via the legal system: The FBI and police abused the legal system to harass dissidents and make them appear to be criminals. Officers of the law gave perjured testimony and presented fabricated evidence as a pretext for false arrests and wrongful imprisonment. They discriminatorily enforced tax laws and other government regulations and used conspicuous surveillance, "investigative" interviews, and grand jury subpoenas in an effort to intimidate activists and silence their supporters.
  • Illegal force: The FBI conspired with local police departments to threaten dissidents; to conduct illegal break-ins in order to search dissident homes; and to commit vandalism, assaults, beatings and assassinations. The object was to frighten or eliminate dissidents and disrupt their movements.
There's really no reason to believe that local police departments would hesitate to join in a modern COINTELPRO, especially given their (or their union's) attitude toward the election and their setting apart from the populace.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#170871: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:19:42 PM

If they impeached Trump, they would have Pence in power who would be way less openly malevolent and much easier to control. It would let them look good for a brief moment, and they'd still do all the same shit they were planning on doing except with less incompetence. Stuff like Trump's ridiculously botched executive order on the ban wouldn't happen.

The only thing is that Trump's base wouldn't rally around Pence and they have to know that. They'd probably focus extra hard on gerrymandering if it came to that.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#170872: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:21:18 PM

Ummm...the Judicial Branch section of whitehouse.gov is gone.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#170873: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:25:43 PM

Hanlon's Razor suggests that its just them not getting around to updating it yet.

But this is Cheeto Benito we are dealing with.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170874: Jan 29th 2017 at 6:29:51 PM

Why do people keep talking about impeachment as some magic thing? NO President has been forcibly ousted by impeachment. ALL it is is bringing somebody up on charges, and that's not necessarily enough to get rid of him. The ones who left over impeachment voluntarily resigned because they actually gave two shits about the scandals. If Trump is impeached, he isn't going to go anywhere. He's going to make a rallying call to his cultists on Twitter and then we will see where they stand on politics. With luck they'll falter and ditch him when it comes time to actually fight, but considering he has the grunts in the military on his side, impeachment will probably backfire with the arrests of the GOP members who actually try to get rid of him. Not like Trump ever needed a legal reason to arrest protesters, let alone people actively trying to get rid of him.

He's already ignoring the courts. Unless somebody takes Bannon out of the equation, there's really no voice to say "maybe the GOP is right on this one . . ."

ETA: I consistently say these things because no one else is. I mean, even the worst of the pessimists isn't saying "impeachment won't work." So let me lay out our worst case scenario for real. Trump is a cult leader. He has a religious following. Maybe he doesn't really, but it's the way things come across. Especially with that infiltration group we read about earlier. So when it all comes to a head, we're going to see our country go from a Democratic Republic to a Fascist state, to a theocracy hailing Trump as the second coming of fucking Christ. I'm hoping I'm wrong, of course, but someody's got to lay out the worst so we can move up from there. Up til now everyone's been saying things in terms of the GOP, but there's a good chance that fucking party is dying from a political case of Cordyceps.

edited 29th Jan '17 6:34:44 PM by Journeyman

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#170875: Jan 29th 2017 at 7:00:41 PM

Checking the news feeds, I dont see very many people ignoring the court order. Nearly all the detained green card holders have been released from the airports, and people from the seven banned countries are being allowed in. Yes, there is still confusion, and enforcement is uneven across ports of entry, but did you expect winning to be easy? And if victory doesn't come easy, do you abandon hope and start fantasizing about civil wars and violent takeovers?

I get we are all concerned. But at some point focusing on your fear not only doesn't do any good, you're harming the cause, by inciting panic and making it look like we are losing. I would almost suspect deliberate sabotage if I didn't know you guys so well. It's the kind of thing the Republican underground would do, though- seed in a few hysterical people on the web-boards and see if you can get the opposition to go off the rails. Dont do their work for them.

Protest News: Trump refugee ban: Airbnb offers free housing to people barred from flights to US

New York taxi drivers strike in protest at Donald Trump's Muslim travel ban

Senator McCain's press release on Trump's Executive Order

Attorney's General from 16 States Condemn Trump Order

Chaos reigns amid legal battle over Trump's immigration ban: "...Attorneys for civil rights and immigration advocacy groups said Customs and Border Protection agents are interpreting Trump's orders differently. At some international airports, including Chicago, Atlanta and Dallas, all people who were detained have been allowed to enter the United States. At others, including San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York's JFK International Airport, lawyers said an undetermined number of travelers remained in custody."

Confusion Grips Airports as Courts Limit Trump Travel Curbs: "...Throughout the U.S., security officials detained 109 people arriving from the seven countries, including some legal U.S. residents, until judges in Brooklyn, New York; Alexandria, Virginia; and Boston intervened. The Boston ruling, issued Sunday, requires U.S. officials to let passengers from all seven countries who have valid visas deplane and go on their way, though the ruling applies only in Boston."

However this plays out in the end, it's clear that Trump has sacrificed a lot of credibility, even with his own party. The thing to remember is that the Office of the President has very little power in itself. If Congress chooses to, they can cripple any of his policies by simply removing the funds for it. And if the bureaucracy rebels, he himself can't do a thing about it.

One last piece of good news: Trump's approval rating? Down the drain.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

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