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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#170551: Jan 28th 2017 at 8:48:35 PM

None of that, now. The Trump regime just faced its first real legal battle in court over one of their cruel and unconstitutional agenda items. And who won?

That's right, we fucking well did. It's just the beginning of the war, but that victory shows that we are far from fucked. Look at the thousands of protestors who turned out across the nation to demand the release of the detainees, and send the clear message that refugees and immigrants are to be made welcome here.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#170552: Jan 28th 2017 at 8:48:53 PM

[up] Why do that?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#170553: Jan 28th 2017 at 8:49:46 PM

I already disliked Bannon more than Trump, but with every bit of news I find him more and more of a loathsome wretch. We have to put a spotlight to him and let absolutely everyone know who he is and what he's reponsible for, so that Trump doesn't become a scapegoat for everything while the rest of Trump's odious cabal gets away scott-free.

edited 28th Jan '17 8:50:51 PM by Draghinazzo

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#170554: Jan 28th 2017 at 8:50:41 PM

[up][up][up][up] America isn't screwed. New York Cops will definitely arrest any Customs Officer that doesn't comply with the Judge's ruling. If the Custom Officers start shooting at the New York Cops, then we'll be screwed.

... If a Cop v. Cop war (or battle) erupts because of Trump, we can say he's the worst President for Police Officers in American History. That'll piss off Trump hard.

[down] Oh god, that reminds me of Andrew Jackson's infamous line, "The Courts have made their ruling; now let them enforce it", with regards to Indian Affairs. Shortly afterwards the Trail of Tears happened...

edited 28th Jan '17 8:53:36 PM by DingoWalley1

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170555: Jan 28th 2017 at 8:51:40 PM

We'll have to wait and see. It wasn't lawful for them to arrest and detain four hundred protesters who hadn't done anything. But they did.

It isn't lawful to uphold this ban. But they are.

If the enforcement agencies back Trump and co over the courts, court maneuvers won't work.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#170556: Jan 28th 2017 at 8:55:33 PM

[up] Well as they said, wait and see when the cops who uphold the law from a court tear the officers new assholes.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#170558: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:05:27 PM

The constitution is a piece of paper unless enforced. And trump isn't gonna enforce it.

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170559: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:05:43 PM

Did they already have those elections in VA and NJ?

I don't remember hearing if they manage to stop the GOP from being able to run amendments through or not.

ETA: Trump's not the one who has to enforce it. The rest of the government is. We can't count on the Republicans because their whole effort for 60 years has been leading up to this moment.

edited 28th Jan '17 9:07:15 PM by Journeyman

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#170560: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:08:27 PM

[up]53 years, but who is counting...

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170561: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:11:18 PM

In the ballpark. Either way, we can't count on them. They want this. And the Democrats are limited in fighting this. They can raise Hell for sure, but there aren't enough of them to carry the whole fight. The courts and anyone supporting the Constitution in the Enforcement agencies are our only real hopes.

And think of this: The Constitution completely allowed this whole mess to happen. No matter what, when this is over, it's getting some major attention and overhauling to prevent a repeat, you can bet on that. But that also means that even loyalists in the military might be less enthusiastic about defending that piece of paper anymore.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#170562: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:14:44 PM

81% of Americans want ObamaCare to remain, with ~60% of them only wanting to change parts of the Law. Only 15% of Americans want ObamaCare completely removed.

On top of that, of Republican respondents: 51% would be more likely to re-elect their Candidate if they removed Obamacare, but 42% do not care and 5% would be less likely!

This just enforces my opinion that Trump only won (by 60K votes in 3 states) because the American People just wanted to vote for a Republican President instead of a Democrat one. Look where that's gotten us so far...

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170563: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:18:19 PM

A lot of us American people (Myself included) utterly hate this whole "there's only one real choice" thing we've got going on now. I know, I know, it shot us in the foot this time, but the point stands. America is about freedom above all else. Seriously, that's just it. When you give us only one acceptable choice, we're hemmed in. So we really need to get back to the point where we have two viable parties with two stable platforms that won't actually harm or kill us as a nation. We NEED it. Freedom's about choice. So we need a choice that isn't life or death.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#170564: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:20:01 PM

[up][up][up]That is a more general problem with the military: the oath sworn in service has defense and protection of the constitution first, with the chain of command second-while so many assume they are one and the same by default. Intelligence agencies have a clearer delineation, swearing to uphold the constitution only, and drawing a line of authority through its naming the president as commander-in-chief.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#170565: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:21:48 PM

[up] You know, you sound kinda sound too pessimistic for the situation.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#170566: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:22:43 PM

Won't Trump try to fight the ban on the order?

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#170567: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:24:04 PM

[up] Absolutely. This is just beginning.

And if the law continues to foil him, his next assault will be on the law itself. Even more so than he's already been doing.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170568: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:24:37 PM

It depends on the enforcement agencies. If they decide to disregard the courts, he won't have to touch that one. If they uphold the court's decision, then he'll fight.

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#170569: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:25:13 PM

Why fight when he can ignore the courts?

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#170570: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:26:05 PM

Speaking of which, I'm seeing confirmation that Dulles International Airport is not complying with the federal court order, and is not allowing the 50-60 detainees there to see their lawyers.

And Cory Booker is apparently on the scene now, with the intention of sorting this shit out. But press isn't allowed back there, so we don't know what's going on.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170571: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:28:13 PM

There's already been noise during more peaceful years about redoing or striking out parts of the Constitution to start with. So . . . we've been headed this way for a long time. Chances are, you really can't trust that piece of paper to matter anymore. And once it doesn't, well . . . it's anybody's game.

ETA: We really are going to have to watch this closely.

edited 28th Jan '17 9:30:16 PM by Journeyman

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#170572: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:33:39 PM

@ Luigisan 98: I made a comment relating to the fact that most people fail to read the fine print, be that printed in a EULA, a surgeon general's warning, or an oath of service that far too many take for granted. That was not pessimism, simply a neutral observation.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#170573: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:39:35 PM

Couple of updates from Dulles: Booker says that the airport is officially in violation of a federal court's order, and that this is a constitutional crisis. He also says that he's been told the detainees will be released (cue cheers). However, he also says that he believes that no detainees have been transferred to other facilities—but lawyers have said that they believe there have been transfers.

Does this mean that there may be some detainees who have been taken off the grid, transferred to some unknown location?

Oh, and this is your daily scheduled reminder that Steve Bannon now holds equal station with the Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense. Just in case you hadn't shit yourself yet today.

edited 28th Jan '17 9:40:05 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#170574: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:41:43 PM

Why am I slowly getting ideas for a thriller cyberpunk story?

And I've heard that another airport maybe is not complying with the the order... Not sure but I heard some persons on FB mention having the Marshals involved.

edited 28th Jan '17 9:41:54 PM by Ominae

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#170575: Jan 28th 2017 at 9:42:29 PM

I wonder if there was someone in particular in that batch of detainees that was important to whisper away. It seems odd that they'd push hard like that and have unconfirmed reports of people disappearing.


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