Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I'd say that is a good thing but I'm seriously doubting that the morons who voted for Trump will recognize the truth and will instead blame the Democrats, Obama, Hillary and Soros for Trumps and the Go P failures because clearly it was a great plan, how could a bigly plan like that fail? It must have been librul lies and deception! Everything is great!
Inter arma enim silent legesTulsi Gabbard claims to have met Assad during her trip to Syria
.
And people support her because?
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiotHe is already acting like her.
EDIT: Relevant
.
edited 25th Jan '17 1:47:48 PM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVConsidering they've rigged VA for winning, and they only needed VA or Jersey to have the power to write amendments . . .
New Amendments strengthening Martial Law and Habeas Corpus. More shit to stir up protesters. Get into a war with someone, most likely China but maybe others too. Declare Martial Law when protests reach a peak. No more elections til the Reps need them.
And in the scenario that Trump doesn't want a second term, or that he literally keels over in the next four years from the concentrated wills of seven billion people, the GOP can just install whatever other far-right-wing asshole they want.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Look, I get the concern, but I'm very hesitant to say "The Republicans will be in government now and forever" right now.
Basically, the laws of physics still exist, no matter how much you try to wish them away.
If the Republicans somehow win the Midterms, then I will admit that American Democracy is dead, and will probably end up fleeing to Canada.
But everything is telling me that the people won't allow themselves to be bullied and threatened and will vote to keep the Republicans from getting a Majority again, even with them trying their damndest to rig things for themselves.
![]()
![]()
Depends on how much honor and moral character our military personnel have today, I suppose. When they're inevitably ordered to fire live rounds at protestors, do they comply, or do they mutiny? If they mutiny, is it just a handful, or an entire battalion?
![]()
It's not a "now and forever" situation necessarily, it's more of a "it may take generations for his regime to fall unless we grind their agenda to a halt now." (And remember, with the state of the environment and world stability, we may not have generations.)
Ugly fact is, right now they're holding pretty much all the cards, and they have all the tools they need for indefinite rule. Rigging elections will be a priority for them, and they have the power to do it. If you have a different perspective, I'd love to hear it.
It's basically going to be a battle of "the will of the people vs. the rigging of the ballots." And in that scenario, I'm sorry to say, I have put my money on the party who've had two years to stack the deck.
edited 25th Jan '17 2:09:32 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Surely both sides will have had two years to stack that particular deck. Plus, we're fighting against their deck stacking while they help us with ours.
Because the other perspective on it is that the last few days have been proving the people who voted against Trump right. His approval rating were historically shitty to begin with, and will only have fallen since. Voter suppression and Gerrymandering can only go so far when everyone hates you.
edited 25th Jan '17 2:13:24 PM by Gilphon
You think this is about profits . . .
I've said this before in places, and it's been obscured but public knowledge for years. The Corporate elite worship at the altar of Ayn Rand. Randian Objectivism. Profits are how they attain their goals, yes, but they aren't the real goal. Trump said it himself, to burn the system down. What he failed to mention in the quoted piece is that each one of these shitbags has a fortified estate where they can hide out, if not a town-sized shared bunker between them. While the world burns, they, their automation, and the few select people they bother to bring along, will wait out the end of the Apocalypse and come back to rebuild everything in their and their descendents' images. Seriously, just read Atlas Shrugged. It's their bible.
You've been had if you actually think they even want to participate in the system. Burning it to the ground so they can make a totally new one is their philosophy.
edited 25th Jan '17 2:14:21 PM by Journeyman
![]()
![]()
No, because both sides aren't on equal footing. The GOP are in power right now. They have the White House, they have Congress, they have most of the state houses and state legislatures. And they're willing to fight dirty in a way that Democrats still aren't. Like I said, they're holding all the cards.
edited 25th Jan '17 2:15:48 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Yeah the Dempcrats basically have to rebuild the coalition that bought about the Voting Rights Act and the end of Jim Crow, because that's where the US is in terms of Voting Rights now.
I expect that Trump's 'investigation' into voter fraud will lead to a national ID law, hell I wouldn't be surprised if drivers licences were declared not a valid ID and instead you had to have a passport or NRA membership card so as to vote.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranYour misunderstanding what I meant by our deck stacking, I think. They rig the system, we make sure nobody has a single goddamn reason to vote R. We do what we can to fight against their system rigging, secure in the knowledge that nothing they're doing will cost us support from voters, and will indeed help our cause. So in 2018, it's a much larger proportion of population on our sides, possibly enough to overwhelm the system rigging the GOP has done.
About gerrymandering specifically: That practice has been pretty standard for political groups for over 200 years, why are things so different now that it will allow this administration specifically to remain in control past 2020? And suppressing the votes of minorities will only do so much if they tank the economy and social safety nets of pretty much everyone else as well.
I agree that the damage they're going to cause might just take a lifetime to fix, if it's even possible. But I didn't even think they could win in the first place, so I figure any predictions I can make are more than a little pointless...
![]()
Just brute-force past their rigging? Mhm, there's sense in that, but I have my doubts about how possible that's going to be. Make no mistake, the GOP are going to be looking at the number hard, and they're going to do whatever it takes to make sure those numbers go the way they want. There are still millions of people all over the nation who will vote for them no matter what, and all they have to do is make sure their votes count and nobody else's do.
Remember, it's not just direct election rigging. We're looking at two solid years of constant pro-Trump and pro-GOP (and probably pro-Russia) propaganda, combined with concerted censorship attempts to be inevitably brought against dissenters and truth-tellers. Look what "fake news" did to this election. Take that, and add in Trump TV, Breitbart, Fox News...all these state-run propaganda outlets that will be the only source of news for millions of inbred red voters.
edited 25th Jan '17 2:25:53 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."https://www.google.com/#q=Does+the+corporate+elite+worship+Ayn+Rand
Ha. Ha ha. It really isn't that obscure at all.
I chose to choke down that 1,000 page condemnation of myself and nearly lost my will to live from it. All for a stupid scholarship. Couldn't even think or stomach doing an essay to actually get the scholarship. Heh, but boy does knowing this shit come in handy now, huh?
Short version: John Galt works for a company run by Communists. He gets sick of it, and leaves. He looks around at the world. Everyone in that world is basically a fucking commie. Even in America. So he says, "fuck off world, I'm building a city and I'm taking all the other inventors with me." That's all backstory. The main story is the quest of some self insert bitch named Dagney Taggart to find the man. Now, for some odd reason, Galt likes Dagney and SHE gets to live in the city with him as the rest of the world burns down around them from nobody being willing or able to come up with new ideas to solve the big crises of the world.
Probably not completely accurate but it gets the point across.
![]()
The propaganda part's not a given. Even Fox news has been calling out Trump. There's an important battle to fought there over keeping the the Media honest, but not we should assume it's one that's already lost.
Plus, it's harder to sell someone a lie when you've spend the last two years making their lives worse in immediately obvious ways.
Remember that more people voted against Hillary than for Trump. The proportion of people who actually like him is small, and nothing that's happened yet has the potential to grow it. The battle to keep it that way is one of the battles we need to be fighting right now.
Imagine, instead of what you said, two solid years of 'everyone the white house says is a lie, everything they do makes things worse, and they're making a contrast and increasingly shameless effort to destroy America's democracy'. And now imagine that that's the Fox News version of it.
edited 25th Jan '17 2:33:37 PM by Gilphon

I don't even think he'll bother running for a second term after all the crap he's gonna get for the next four years.
i'm tired, my friend