TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#169301: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:02:04 AM

[up]x4 Indeed. I don't like this attitude of "well what did those reporters expect? They were in the wrong place at the wrong time." Their job is to report what's going on. To punish them for that is a direct attack on freedom of speech.

Oh wait, in Trump's 'Merica, the only news is supposed to come from Trump himself. Nevermind.

edited 25th Jan '17 7:04:45 AM by speedyboris

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#169302: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:07:12 AM

Which is why we need to stop reaching to make excuses for this Fourth Reich and start looking at what's happening. Mass arrests of protestors and reporters isn't just an honest mistake, it's the government very clearly sending a message to any future protestors and reporters. The Fuhrer ordering an investigation into utterly groundless claims of massive voter fraud isn't just Trump being Trump - it's them preparing to do away with free elections and ensure they remain in power forever. Trump threatening to "send in the feds" to one of the country's biggest cities cannot be handwaved away with "well he might just mean more investigators or aid workers." It must be heard as what it's clearly meant as - "I will send in troops to occupy this city if you don't do what I say."

Rule One: Believe the autocrat.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#169303: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:19:36 AM

Also, I gotta say, this is exactly what he meant when he called himself the "law and order candidate" - a chlling appellation if ever there was one, provided that you know what buzzwords mean (basically, police state time in this case). Seriously, that sounds like some eastern Europe autocrat bullshit. Hell, it sounds like the name of one of their parties.

Welcome to the Free American Empire. Your stay will not be pleasant.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#169304: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:20:08 AM

Sean Spicer has officially stated that the media should assume that Trump is correct on whatever he's talking about unless it can be proven otherwise.

Live factchecking? On my 24 hour cable news? Perish the thought!

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#169305: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:24:12 AM

So the media should never assume Trump is correct because every lie he tells is easily verifiable as false? At least, right now it is. When Aijit Pai does his thing, there won't be any proof anywhere because any site that posts it will be instagibbed into incoherence.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#169306: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:27:29 AM

Okay, I'm going to make this post so people can bookmark it, so that ANY time someone claims that Trump isn't a fascist you can slap them down with facts.

Here you have the 14 defining characteristics of Fascism

Point 1:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Donald Trump declared his Inauguration Day a “national day of patriotic devotion”

The Official Donald Trump Jam

Point 2:

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Trump Listed as Human Rights Threat By Watchdog for his politics of Intolerance

Point 3

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.[[quoteblock]]

Trump expected to order ban on refugees

Point 4:

[[quoteblock]]Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Donald Trump announces plans for military parades in major US cities after he becomes President

Trump wants defense spending increased

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

Trump administration deletes apology to LGBT people over government discrimination

Trump bans federal funding for foreign NGOs that support abortion

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Trump Planned on Trump TV

Trump Congratulates Fox News on Ratings, Slams ‘Fake News CNN’ on Twitter

Trump Escalating War with the Press

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Donald Trump to order Mexico wall in national security crackdown

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Trump has a vision of religion in America

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Trump's Promises to Corporate Leaders: Lower Taxes and Fewer Regulations

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Trump launches war on unions

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

Trump Administration Restricts News from Federal Scientists at USDA, EPA

All References to Climate Change Have Been Deleted From the White House Website

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Trump says he'll send the Feds if Chicago doesn't fix it's rampant carnage

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Donald Trump has assembled the worst Cabinet in American history

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Trump calls for Major Investigation in Voter fraud

Welcome to a Brave New World, comrades.

New Survey coming this weekend!
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#169307: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:45:14 AM

[up] We were warned. We were warned, but we didn't listen. Whether our nation ever recovers from this or not, the people who saw what was coming and were ignored are going to go down in history as The Cassandra for sure.

Some information on what Net Neutrality is, why it's in danger, and how we can try to save it.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#169308: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:51:06 AM

We shouldn't falter at all, hope will persist in this nation like the other before.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#169309: Jan 25th 2017 at 7:53:11 AM

For a while, I considered not voting because I'm registered in CA and figured "eh, it won't matter". I voted for HRC anyway. And I'm glad I did.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#169310: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:00:53 AM

I think people who really want to cling to him will sidestep that from "Trump isn't a Fascist" to "Fascism is exactly what we need to put down those minorities and women. They've gotten too full of themselves and it's time they paid the price." The rest . . . well, they'll cite no good opposition candidates existing.

Hilary could have been good, or really really bad for us. Not in herself, but in the consequences of having her as President. The only way an HRC presidency would have worked without giving us a future superTrump would have been if she was able to demonstrably fix the major problems in the country, right down to addressing the political issues that led to Trump, and causing the hardcore altrighters to get so infuriated that they outright broke laws and gave us a perfect excuse/reason to see them all locked up or executed on the spot. And that wasn't going to happen.

Can you imagine another Trump running in a U.S. that already had strict gun control to the point where nobody but the criminals can carry something that might, possibly, make a soldier or cop think twice about getting into a shootout?

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#169311: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:03:29 AM

Republicans reveal their big plan to replace the ACA: They will allow States 3 Options - To keep ObamaCare, to create their own plan without Federal Assistance, or to have no replacement at all and no Federal Assistance.

(Facepalm)

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#169312: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:04:54 AM

Something from my local paper

Idaho Democratic leader takes heat for Black Lives Matter comments

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/politics-blog/article128419609.html

First few paragraphs:

Sally Boynton Brown, the Idaho’s Democratic Party’s executive director and one of seven candidates to chair the Democratic National Committee, is taking heat for comments she made at a candidates’ forum last week on how the party should talk about the Black Lives Matter movement.

Brown, responding to a question from moderator Joy-Ann Reid of MSNBC, said Democrats have failed minorities and people of color and need to “accept there is prejudice” within the party. Speaking as a “white woman” who doesn’t “get it,” she said her job was to was to “shut other white people down when they want to say, oh, no, I’m not prejudiced; I’m a Democrat.”

Right-leaning media outlets seized on the “shut other white people down” part of her comment to attack her and the party.

edited 25th Jan '17 8:05:11 AM by sgamer82

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#169313: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:05:02 AM

[up]Times are different this time around, I'm pretty sure that it won't escalate that badly, there's no reason in believing a total repeat of history from century to century in a general sense.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#169314: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:05:51 AM

[up][up][up]Gee, I wonder which path most states will choose.

edited 25th Jan '17 8:05:59 AM by carbon-mantis

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#169315: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:06:40 AM

I want to give that woman a hug and kiss.

She hit the nail right on the fucking head.

New Survey coming this weekend!
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#169316: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:11:57 AM

Yeah, let's hear it for this Sally Brown, right? We need more Dems who understand these issues, and who get that people of color are their real core base, not the much-vaunted "white working class."

Times are different this time around, I'm pretty sure that it won't escalate that badly, there's no reason in believing a total repeat of history from century to century in a general sense.

Despair is dangerous, but so is complacency. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Right now, I see no reason to think that we're somehow special and will avoid the rise of fascism. We're certainly doing a piss-poor job of it right now.

Yeah, we got a really big protest a few days ago, and that was great. But there were really big protests against the Nazis too. Look how that turned out. Protests aren't enough.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#169317: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:12:37 AM

Nick Offlerman, Memetic Bad Ass.

edited 25th Jan '17 8:12:46 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#169318: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:12:49 AM

@Luigisan 98: Yeah, there's no reason to expect a total repeat of history from century to century. This time, the fascists have the world's largest military and the lion's share of the world's nukes on their side, and thus can win World War III (inasmuch as anyone can "win" a nuclear war) despite the dictator's insanity and incompetence.

[down] Don't you just love fascism-enabling feedback loops?

edited 25th Jan '17 8:15:06 AM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#169319: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:13:43 AM

Quoth megarockman:

The Economist's daily graph. America is officially a Flawed Democracy (by, like 0.02 points on a 1-10 scale, but still). The blurb stresses Trump's election isn't the cause - rather, the two have the same root causes (declining faith in government institutions).
But Trump's election does cause further loss of faith in government institutions, especially with his cabinet picks...

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#169320: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:14:10 AM

[up]That was different, they used hard force against them to suppress them, the majority of the USA on the other day, will do all what it takes to ensure the complete transition of a dictatorship.

Maintaining a low hope for the nation will not help, always think for the best.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#169321: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:16:34 AM

[up][up][up] Bleak, but accurate.

Oh look, everybody's favorite weasel, McCain, is doubling down on his insistence that we're never bringing back torture.

"The President can sign whatever executive orders he likes. But the law is the law. We are not bringing back torture in the United States of America.

"On June 16, 2015, the United States Senate voted 78-21 to adopt an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2016 that reaffirmed the prohibition on torture by limiting interrogation techniques to those in the Army Field Manual. The Army Field Manual does not include waterboarding or other forms of enhanced interrogation. The law requires the field manual to be updated to ensure it 'complies with the legal obligations of the United States and reflects current, evidence-based, best practices for interrogation that are designed to elicit reliable and voluntary statements and do not involve the use or threat of force.' Furthermore, the law requires any revisions to the field manual be made available to the public 30 days prior to the date the revisions take effect.

"During both our personal conversations and his confirmation hearing, CIA Director Mike Pompeo repeatedly committed to me that he will comply with the law that applies the Army Field Manual's interrogation requirements to all U.S. agencies, including the CIA. In response to written questions from the Senate Armed Services Committee, Secretary of Defense James Mattis said he 'support[s] using the Army Field Manual as the single standard for all U.S. military interrogations.' I am confident these leaders will be true to their word."

Until I see some action backing up this tough talk, Johnny boy, I'm putting this in the same category as "I'm tough on Russia! Now excuse me while I vote for Tillerson!"

Oh, but bringing back torture would break the law! We all know that Trump would never, ever break the law. And Pompeo says he wouldn't do it, although McCain conveniently forgets to mention the fact that Pompeo then flip-flopped and said he totally might.

edited 25th Jan '17 8:16:43 AM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#169322: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:21:23 AM

McCain is the kind of disgusting Republican filth that existed at the outset of Reagan, where moral complacency was king — never advocate atrocity, verbally rail against it, but stand by and let it happen at the crucial moment.

There's no such thing as a principled Republican.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#169323: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:22:06 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] Not even that sort of thing will happen, Humanity have survived all odds against anything oppressive, and WWIII will never saw the day light no matter what it happens.

Fascist or not, they will never win, no matter what action they make, they will never completely consume the world as long as rationality it's around.

edited 25th Jan '17 8:23:35 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#169324: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:23:51 AM

[up][up] Yep.

After the election, when he started putting on his "maverick" persona and doing a lot of big talk about standing up to Trump and being tough on Russia, I was actually starting to like the guy. In hindsight, now I see that was just because I was desperate for heroes. McCain's just like the rest of them, only he pretends he isn't. (And his stunt with Palin is what paved the way for this mess, so thanks, asshole.)

He buckled on Tillerson, is doing the same on Russia, says Sessions is a great choice for AG, is trying to steal people's health care, and now expects us to believe that he's going to stand firm on torture?

[up] Again, I respect your hope and optimism, but it has to be tempered with realism. Fascism is rising, not just here but around the world. And the stage for WWIII is already being set.

edited 25th Jan '17 8:24:41 AM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#169325: Jan 25th 2017 at 8:24:00 AM

Trump Announces 'Major Investigation' Into Voter Fraud, also known as "Trump puts his Foot in his Mouth, then both in his Ass".

When literally nothing comes out of this waste of Time and Money, I seriously hope this not only destroys and Republican Pretext for outrageous Voter ID laws, but it finally wakes up enough Trump Supporters that they realize Trump is a God Damn Loon!

Also, I just realized this also requires Congress to pass, and there's no way the Senate is going to vote for this!

edited 25th Jan '17 8:25:27 AM by DingoWalley1


Total posts: 417,856
Top