TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#168251: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:00:50 PM

Moreover that argument has a real big problem, which is that it's basically saying that you shouldn't call out bullshit when you see it or that there's somehow a lack of legitimacy to most claims of "isms" against Trump and a number of his supporters.

When there's a problem and you want to get it solved, ignoring it or pretending it doesn't exist is the last thing you want to do.

That some people take offense to it or don't take it seriously is not indicative that people should stop calling out Trump and his supporters' bigotry, because that's inevitable in any sort of social issue.

This is all ignoring the fact that Trump is PRETTY damn transparent about it. Him being associated with women or black men doesn't somehow make him not sexist or racist. The fact that he's so open about it is why people are so adamant in applying those labels to him.

edited 21st Jan '17 7:02:08 PM by Draghinazzo

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#168252: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:03:05 PM

I really hate the idea of "If the dems had just focused on the Real Issues instead of Identity Politics we'd not be in this mess" as if "Yes hello I exist, am a real human being, and deserve basic human dignity" isn't a really fucking low bar to set for "real issues". What you're saying there is "we should focus on what makes white people happy"

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#168254: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:28:43 PM

Which, of course, is why Trump started talking about the media doctoring the turnout comparason images. Controlling the narrative is important to him.

But we shouldn't underestimate our enemy here- controlling the narrative is a thing he's good at. It pays to remember that no matter how ridiculous the thing he says is, plenty of people will believe it simply because he said it. So plenty of people now believe that the poor turnout for the inauguration was just a media hoax. Which matters for the same reason the poor turnout mattered in the first place.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#168255: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:30:50 PM

Just came back from the Omaha Women's March. Turnout was about 18,000 according to the OPD sergeant in charge.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#168256: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:40:35 PM

I was going to do my big rebuttal now, but Sci Fi Slasher pretty thoroughly beat me to it. So I'll just go with "what they said."

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#168257: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:43:15 PM

This seemed worth passing along: Why the protests now may have a bigger impact than, say, Occupy or Iraq anti-war protests. (TLDR: It's all about image.)
On the other hand, a comparison and contrast with protest movements in Russia.

edited 21st Jan '17 7:43:56 PM by Eschaton

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#168258: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:45:29 PM

So...guys...a Republican introduced a bill in the House to withdraw the United States from the UN....

Seriously...

Granted it's a few weeks old but...

We're in full blown no-man's land here.

I can't fully rule out anything crazy.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#168259: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:49:36 PM

[up] Isn't the UN BASED in the United States? How would that work? Would they demolish the NY building?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#168260: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:52:14 PM

[up]Of course not. They'd refurbish it and turn it Trump Tower 2.0. After all, someone as bigly and YUUGE as Trump needs a lot of living space for himself and his tiny hands.tongue

Anyhoo, with any luck, the fact that it's just been sitting there the last few weeks hopefully means that no-one took it seriously and isn't going to do anything with it, but the very fact that someone still actually proposed this is still unprecedented as all fuck. What, did they try to get their own version of Brexit off the ground, is that it?

edited 21st Jan '17 7:55:05 PM by kkhohoho

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#168261: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:53:01 PM

Russia's also a member of the UN too regardless of their stance towards the EU and NATO, so I don't think they would like it if the US leaves.

edited 21st Jan '17 7:55:47 PM by Bat178

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#168262: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:56:37 PM

[up] Actually they probably would - the US leaving the UN would mean that Russia and China would not have to worry about its greatest opponent on the Security Council. surprised

Imagine the Soviet boycott of a resolution meeting which led to foreign intervention in the Korean War, but in reverse.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#168263: Jan 21st 2017 at 7:57:32 PM

[up] Though the UN having it's base of operations in a country that is not a member and/or outright hostile to them would be rather awkward, not to mention China and Russia would probably end up butting heads. I'm surprised they actually haven't yet due to Russia's meddling in the US causing US relations to sour with China.

edited 21st Jan '17 8:03:03 PM by Bat178

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#168264: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:01:45 PM

I think one of the problems I have with Trump trying to 'control the narrative', other then it being against the First Amendment, is that it can't be done without heavily cracking down on the media: There are too many independent News Organizations, Journalists, and sources for the News that Trump trying to make 100% of all these guys focus on him instead of anything else is impossible, and that's disregarding the fact that these guys can both focus on Trump and anything else at the same time. Essentially, everyone in Modern American Journalism is Charles Foster Kane, and almost every News Organization is the New York Inquirer.

The only way Trump could effectively control the Media is to create a Government Agency that actively monitors and suppresses News all through out the United States, both On and Off Line; something that hasn't happened since WWII. A Democrat Congress would never let that happen because it's wrong and goes against the First Amendment. A Republican Congress would never let that happen because that increases the size of the Government which is always wrong. Maybe if the Republicans become more of an Alt-Right party, they'd at least attempt to try it, but almost any Court in America would shut it down as long as America wasn't in a war.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#168265: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:08:54 PM

So... hello, hi. I'd like to make a suggestion for the people who don't like what the next four years will bring (which I'd assume to be everyone who frequents this thread). Please don't protest for the whole four-year period just because you despise Trump and he's every -ist in the book. A lot of candidates say shit that they don't follow up on during the presidency. I really don't want the country to destroy itself from infighting over words while our enemies laugh at us and do their own thing. I may not sound like I'm making sense, but I have to get this off my chest. Thanks, and have a good evening/morning/day.

The legend has returned.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#168266: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:10:47 PM

[up][up]He's already starting work on discrediting the media- it doesn't matter how honest and through the reporting is if nobody believe them.

And that's presuming the reporting will uniformly remain honest and through, and not cynically decide to start falling into lockstep with Trump.

But, more broadly- can he control the narrative 100%? No. We wouldn't be here talking about this if he could. But he doesn't need to. He doesn't mind making enemies. As long as he has those core of supporters who will take everything he says as self-evidently true, while the rest of us are scrambling to find evidence to disprove to show to people who aren't listening, he'll maintain the upper hand he needs.

edited 21st Jan '17 8:11:21 PM by Gilphon

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#168267: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:17:03 PM

[up][up] Hello. Goodbye. Your post is noted. Thanks for dropping by. At least you're being honest about not wanting to stay and have a thought-out discussion.

https://youtu.be/koi0ZXOVu4c?t=510

edited 21st Jan '17 8:17:20 PM by FluffyMcChicken

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#168268: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:17:12 PM

As long as he has those core of supporters who will take everything he says as self-evidently true

Do we have any way of knowing how much of the people who voted for him are comprised of these people? I imagine most of his voterbase isn't THAT loyal. I imagine most of them are just willing to tolerate the bigotry if he can improve their lives but when he doesn't bring back 50's america they're not going to turn up for him next time.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#168269: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:18:31 PM

[up][up][up][up]America is only worth preserving if its core values of "liberty and justice for all" and "government by and for the people" are upheld.

We don't want the country destroyed either and that's why we must resist Donald's administration every step of the way as long as they keep showing they're in opposition to those values. He had ample opportunity to be "presidential" and he's blown it every single time.

edited 21st Jan '17 8:21:10 PM by Elle

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#168270: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:19:25 PM

Also, the Republican party isn't against big government all the time, only when it's of any help to their opponents.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#168271: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:19:42 PM

A lot of candidates say shit that they don't follow up on during the presidency.

Yes, we're well aware of that. But your typical politician who makes campaign promises that he doesn't keep, compared to Trump, is like a wet firecracker compared to Hiroshima. Trump manages to simultaneously confirm, deny, and confuse every single thing he says or ever said in the past. I used to think Bill Clinton was a pathological liar, but he's nothing compared to Trump.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#168272: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:20:51 PM

Trump is a racist, bigoted, fascist petty man-child who will stop at nothing to destroy any amounts of dissent that will bruise his ego because insecure walking piece of orange diarrhea who needs constant admiration to make up for his small hands and ugly hairstyle.

I will protest him Every. Single. Fucking. Day.

The moment I stop protesting is the moment I accept that he's a normal part of every day life.

I will not give in.

My ancestors fought too hard for me to sit by and let this asshole roll back everything.

edited 21st Jan '17 8:21:09 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#168273: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:25:59 PM

@Dragh: One hopes that's true. One hopes that if it's true, the elections will continue to be fair enough for it to matter. One hopes that voices of his truly loyal core of support don't become loud enough to overwhelm everyone else's voices.

But those aren't things we know for certain.

Like, in addition to the people who would just take Trump's word for it, we have the people who don't care to look very far into it hearing about the President and Media contradicting each other, and treating both sides with skepticism. Who would then probably tend to believe the first person to offer a strong opinion one way or the other. Which would mostly tend to a vocal minority sort of person. And you can see where I'm going with that.

edited 21st Jan '17 8:26:29 PM by Gilphon

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#168274: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:29:48 PM

He's already starting work on discrediting the media- it doesn't matter how honest and through the reporting is if nobody believe them.

The only people who will listen to Trump are either already long gone, and not worth trying to convince otherwise, or are waiting and hoping that Trump will 'fix' America, and when they realize he can't, they'll turn on him.

And that's presuming the reporting will uniformly remain honest and through, and not cynically decide to start falling into lockstep with Trump.

I see no reason why any news organization to the Left of Fox News would fallow Trump all the way. What the hell would they gain from following a man who regularly mocks and belittles them, with a base that has no love for their news anyways? They may have one or two people on their network that say things like "Yeah, Trump is right about X, Y and Z," but that won't equate to them deciding to become Trump's Lackeys.

As long as he has those core of supporters who will take everything he says as self-evidently true, while the rest of us are scrambling to find evidence to disprove to show to people who aren't listening, he'll maintain the upper hand he needs.

This is true, but most Media Organizations will be helping us in this situation. Them losing their freedom to say whatever they want about whatever they want will kill their ratings, and that's the last thing they want.

Also, I think it's important that, whenever Trump declares a real source of news "Fake News", we, as the Anti-Trump public, should do whatever we can to increase said Organizations power.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#168275: Jan 21st 2017 at 8:35:14 PM

He had ample opportunity to be "presidential" and he's blown it every single time.

He can't be "presidential" for more than a day at best. Every other day he manages to say something completely ridiculous at best to scathingly bigoted, orwellian or completely false at worst.

Not to preach to the choir but come on. No matter its crimes or sordid history I don't think America deserved this.

edited 21st Jan '17 8:37:42 PM by Draghinazzo


Total posts: 417,856
Top