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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#166726: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:28:59 AM

[up] Style of speech seems a pretty secondary or even tertiary thing to be concerned about, to me.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:29:36 AM by sgamer82

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#166728: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:31:53 AM

Her speech on the Alt-Right comes to mind. She had my full undivided attention. She was bringing the case against the Alt-Right like a Lawyer in a court room.

I was hyped as fuck when it was finished, and grinned ear to ear.

Too bad most of the media and far left literally ignored it. Like no criticism, no praise, like flat out pretended she didn't even give it.

-___-

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166729: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:32:15 AM

[up][up]Style over substance is pretty much how Trump won.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:33:15 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#166730: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:35:18 AM

[up][up]That's one I must have missed too. Have to hunt it down I s'pose.

On that note, I never really get how Trump's manner of speech appeals to his lot, but every one I know absolutely adores it. Very simple and repeats his points like a broken record. Like of those god-awful head-on commercials. Sure it makes you remember it, but not in a good way.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:35:25 AM by carbon-mantis

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166731: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:35:26 AM

[up][up] Without power, you can do nothing. That's the zeroth rule upon which all political systems are predicated.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:36:13 AM by CaptainCapsase

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#166732: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:36:01 AM

I believe the basket of deplorable was a separate speech.

New Survey coming this weekend!
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#166733: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:43:03 AM

Truthful or no, it was made in rather poor judgement and just fed ammo to Trumps lot in a similar manner to Romney's "47%" comment I think. They were never voting for her anyway, but I feel Trump's side parading it may have soured some on-the-fencers into abstaining.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166734: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:44:33 AM

Impolitic or not, I wish she hadn't backpedaled on that. Heck, I kind of wish she had doubled down on it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#166735: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:48:14 AM

That was never going to happen. Backpedaling after a bad remark is how you play politics. We generally here consider doubling down the Republican tactic.. Democrats play the game while Republicans look for what's securing the table so they can flip it over.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:49:09 AM by sgamer82

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#166736: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:49:29 AM

Whether the "deplorables" comment was a politically advisable move or not, one thing's for sure - she was absolutely damn right about every word she said there. No matter how many Trumplings then start smugly self-identifying as deplorable in their Twitter handles because that's what passes for wit these days.note 

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#166737: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:54:52 AM

Many a job in the shitty racist bumper sticker industry was saved on that day.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#166738: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:56:12 AM

I wonder how much money I could've made off of dumbass right-wingers, if I had any business sense back when I graduated HS.

Ah, well.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166739: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:00:05 AM

[up] The affinity fraud market for the reactionary right is boundless, but you'd have faced some pretty stiff competition. Since they believe in minimal regulation, it's open season: the more rapacious and deceptive, the better.

(Obligatory bias defusing caveat: the left has its share too, particularly in the areas of alt-med, organics, anti-GMO, and such.)

edited 14th Jan '17 10:00:56 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#166740: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:02:34 AM

Given the quantity of people jizzing their pants over Bernie Sanders despite his patent inability to deliver on his promises and his pandering to a similar brand of populism as that which got Trump elected, we should have known better.

Can we please respect other people's opinions, instead of calling anyone who supported a candidate you personally dislike an uninformed idiot? Besides, the Clinton people could use a little introspection: perhaps she could have won if they didn't spend their time the past months attacking people who were on the fence about her, just so they could feel smug. (By the way, I'm not talking about HRC herself, who did, all things considered, a fine job trying to win them over. Rather the 'Clinton Bros' who up to this day spend all their time complaining about a man who vigorously campaigned for her).

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166741: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:16:06 AM

TBF, if Sanders had won the primaries, I'd have voted for him over Trump easy.

Disgusted, but not surprised
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#166742: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:20:05 AM

[up]I would've voted for anyone over Trump easy. Hell, I've would voted for literal shit over Trump easy. At least then we wouldn't have to worry about the President fucking things up. Or doing anything really. Still better than Trump.tongue

edited 14th Jan '17 10:20:23 AM by kkhohoho

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166743: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:22:04 AM

[up] At least in that case we'd "only" have an unfettered GOP Congress.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#166744: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:22:24 AM

I would've voted for him, but I'm not going to pretend I would've been happy about it.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#166745: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:25:30 AM

There are people calling for them to adopt a more centrist position and try to pander to the much-vaunted WWC, trying to snap away chunks of Trump's base. Which is asinine, if you ask me. Why would we try to steal his small, ignorant, narrow-minded base when we should be consolidating our considerably larger one?

The Republican voting base is simply a lost cause. The vast majority are either deplorables who will never vote Dem unless another 60s-esque total party reversal happens, or they're chumps who have been so indoctrinated by a decade+ concerted campaign of propaganda and delusions that voting Republican has become a part of their personal identity to the point that they routinely vote for them against their own best interests. The Republican base is one part evil and one part cult, with a fair bit of overlap. The Dems will never be able to pull meaningful numbers away from them without abandoning all principle, so this notion of trying to steal Republican votes by doubling down on appeals to the WWC is total hogwash, and honestly starting to feel like a form of backhanded white supremism itself, treating the WWC as some sort of mythical unicorn that will fix all the Dem's electoral problems if they can just find the right way to prostrate themselves before it.

The focus for the next election needs to be on driving up engagement from the Dem's own base and fighting back voter suppression. Longer term, gerrymandering is the big battle, and they need to court the upcoming voting generations.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166746: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:32:31 AM

Can we please respect other people's opinions, instead of calling anyone who supported a candidate you personally dislike an uninformed idiot? Besides, the Clinton people could use a little introspection: perhaps she could have won if they didn't spend their time the past months attacking people who were on the fence about her, just so they could feel smug. (By the way, I'm not talking about HRC herself, who did, all things considered, a fine job trying to win them over. Rather the 'Clinton Bros' who up to this day spend all their time complaining about a man who vigorously campaigned for her).
I don't respect ignorant, uninformed political opinions, especially if they actively damage our democracy, and doubly so if the people holding them ought to know better.

I agree that Clinton's campaign was run poorly in many respects. As a person, she was (and is) eminently qualified to be President, perhaps one of the best candidates we've had in recent memory. That she lost was a combination of many factors, including disaffectation from parts of the left, the Russian propaganda apparatus, outright bias from the media, an excessive focus on scandal over policy, collusion from agents within the FBI, sheer ignorance from a huge number of voters, "fake news" organizations, etc.

Edit: I would have gladly voted for Sanders over Trump. I would have voted for Warren, or Biden, or a dead sewer rat, or even Lincoln Chafee. That doesn't change my opinion of their relative qualifications.

edited 14th Jan '17 10:37:50 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#166747: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:34:16 AM

I would of voted for Sanders if it was down to him and Trump, no question.

I don't really have a lot against Sanders himself honestly. It's possible that some of his more radical supporters were a deciding factor in Hillary losing, but that's only because the election was decided by such a razor thin margin that things that normally wouldn't be deciding factors were just that.

Of course given how catastrophic of a president Trump is shaping up to be, I would of voted for my cat over Donald Trump.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166748: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:35:24 AM

[up] I would have voted for a cat too. And I'm allergic to cats.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#166749: Jan 14th 2017 at 10:36:19 AM

[up]x n(somewhere on this page)

Might be less attacking supporters of other candidates (except Trump supporters who likely deserve it) than pointing out those who were so glued to their "saviors" that they neglected to vote against possibly repeating the 1930s.

As for the praise of Secretary Clinton, one does not have to justify your votes at the polls, except to yourself, but I like reading these here. The reasons one voted for a candidate are important to indicating everything from education and analysis to vulnerability to propaganda, how few voters actually use rational voter choice, and looking for the right type of voice or look or other tribal/instinctual indicators.

I do wonder at this point if any education or conversation can actually bridge the gap. (My idealism didn't make it to the new year either). The poster who stated the dems need a Candidate Obama each time may not be far off. They are competing against the natural cohesion that comes with an ethnic party.

edited 14th Jan '17 10:40:25 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#166750: Jan 14th 2017 at 11:01:00 AM

I'd hardly say that people who refused to vote the same way as Sanders were glued to him.

The people referred to as "Bernie Bros" were in fact his least loyal supporters, because they were only backing him to stop Clinton and when he failed they didn't stick with him, they deserted him and went to Stein.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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