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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#166701: Jan 14th 2017 at 8:53:21 AM

[up][up]Hell, I don't just think it; I'm pretty sure I read it in a damn history book back in high school.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166702: Jan 14th 2017 at 8:53:24 AM

[up][up][up] *raises hand*

[up][up][up][up] Dude, the idea that Hillary Clinton is somehow corrupt or imperialistic had vastly less evidence and people like you were trumpeting it all over the damn place as "rational" reasons not to vote for her. Don't you dare pretend to some kind of neutrality here.

edited 14th Jan '17 8:53:40 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166703: Jan 14th 2017 at 8:54:41 AM

Can we go over the evidence that's come out and what conclusions are being drawn once more, because unless I missed something major, I still feel like much of this ongoing hysteria is an overreaction.

[up] Which is precisely the point that needs to be made; I included myself into that rather than claiming to be above it. Moreover, I should add that, over times, opinions change. This election has crushed whatever remained of the idealism I had prior the outcome in regards to politics.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:00:11 AM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166704: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:04:41 AM

Yeah, we were all overly idealistic. We thought that more people could overcome the obvious media bias and their own cognitive biases and analyze the facts at hand. We gave the voting populace credit for sophistication that it clearly did not possess. We overlooked the role that identity politics and social media information bubbles played in people's decisions.

Given the amount of "Benghazi, emails, speeches, Iran" whining coming even from the left, we should have known better. Given the quantity of people jizzing their pants over Bernie Sanders despite his patent inability to deliver on his promises and his pandering to a similar brand of populism as that which got Trump elected, we should have known better.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:11:27 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166705: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:08:58 AM

[up] I never really got Sanders' appeal aside from being anti-establishment and not-Hillary.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#166706: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:08:59 AM

[up][up][up] Well, if we want to talk about Trump's extensive campaign ties to Russia, this thread is a pretty good start.

Don't forget about Flynn repeatedly calling Russia's US ambassador on the same day that Obama announced the new sanctions.

[up][up] It's not that our ideals were wrong or that we were incorrect in thinking America would reject Trump's agenda - we just didn't count on the deck being as stacked as it was. Remember, despite everything - a rogue FBI, Russian hacking, a decades-long smear campaign, misogyny, Sanders dissing her - Hillary still won more votes than any white man in the history of the US.

And the least qualified, most dangerous candidate in the history of the US gets to be President instead. America, everybody.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:09:09 AM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166707: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:10:37 AM

And there are still people on the left cheering the outcome as a victory over the status quo. Let's see how they feel in four years.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166708: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:11:36 AM

[up] I doubt we'll have to wait that long for them to change their tune.

Fuck accelerationists, is all I'm saying.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:12:10 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#166709: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:13:31 AM

To me, the fact that there are people on the left still trying to fight the Democratic "Establishment" when we have a possible Russian Agent in the White House, who's literally an existential threat to global peace and status quo, and possibly the entire human species, says it all.

The people have extremely warped priorities.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Jasaiga Since: Jan, 2015
#166710: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:14:53 AM

You know what? Fuck it.

I loved Hillary before the election.

I love her during it.

And I love the fuck out of her after it.

Haters gonna hate. Amazing woman. Not gonna let anyone tell me otherwise.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166711: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:15:02 AM

[up]x7 I mean to the point where I have warmed up a great deal to the realist way of doing things to a significant extent. The world is cruel, and by its very nature, anarchic on the international stage; pushing for human rights abroad is largely irrelevant even when it isn't just a front for imperialism because it's almost never a sound strategic decision. The best we can do is try to maintain a stable world.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:16:08 AM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166712: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:15:37 AM

[up][up][up]I just think it's funny that they blame HRC for losing and being so "weak", while still idolizing the guy who lost to her by over a million votes in the primaries.

[up][up] [awesome] The more I learned about her and everything she had done and endured, the more ashamed I was for ever buying into the crap thrown at her. I don't regret voting for her one bit.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:17:10 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#166713: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:16:30 AM

[up][up]

Yeah, I have been amused how Clinton being linked to Kissinger was something you didn't like about her/found potentially disqualifying, but you find legitimizing about Trump.

Funny how your "coming around" seems to have just reinforced your previous priorities/positions.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:17:15 AM by Hodor2

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166714: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:17:42 AM

[up][up][up]You want your rule of law? You want your human rights? You want your respect for sovereignty? Fully 40% of the U.S. voting population actively opposes them, and a good chunk of the rest doesn't care enough to make it a voting priority. Trying to get in your idealistic plug actively helped elect a man who does not give a flying fuck for human rights, while denying the rightful victory to a woman who actively espoused them.

Reality.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:21:26 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#166715: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:18:18 AM

If the Dems take one lesson away from this - an ideological one, not a practical one - it should be that their principles work. There are people calling for them to adopt a more centrist position and try to pander to the much-vaunted WWC, trying to snap away chunks of Trump's base. Which is asinine, if you ask me. Why would we try to steal his small, ignorant, narrow-minded base when we should be consolidating our considerably larger one?

The Dems need to double down on their principles, not move away from them. They ought to be proud of their historic popular vote win, and pissed about their bogus EC defeat. Abandon identity politics, people say? Embrace them, I say. Minorities are their most reliable supporters, and if they have one priority it should be getting all of them into the voting booths. Get them to show up. Show them you care about them, rather than turning your backs on them to try to win over some white jackass in the Rust Belt. (I'm aware that it's possible to do both, but the latter should not be given priority over the former as some pundits are suggesting.)

Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to make sure we still have functional elections by then. And are alive. 'Kay thanks.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166716: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:18:39 AM

[up][up][up] I don't think it legitimizes Trump, but it potentially legitimizes parts of Trump's foreign policy team.

[up][up] I voted for Clinton. As for the other parts, I don't care about any of that any more on principle. In fact I don't really consider myself to have any principles at all, just objectives.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:23:11 AM by CaptainCapsase

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#166717: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:19:11 AM

I voted Clinton because I believe pretty much from the start she was the most qualified choice. Rightly or wrongly, that mattered more to me than party or policy. Especially in the face of a thin skinned, petty, incompetent man-baby who never should've been in sniffing distance of actual power.

Her faults (real and alleged) were irrelevant to me, and watching Trump be all those faults over the last couple months only vindicates my view, far as I'm concerned.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:21:57 AM by sgamer82

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166718: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:20:37 AM

[up][up][up] The sad thing is, HRC didn't actually over-prioritize identity politics. She talked about the economy. She talked about jobs. She talked about policy. But the media chose to focus on Trump to the point that his empty podium got more screen time than some of her speeches.

I've said it before on this thread — Trump was the real identity politics hog. Specifically, white identity politics.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:21:29 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#166719: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:21:28 AM

Eh... maybe things are getting a bit too heated up in here, can you all take a small coffee break and come back afterwards?

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166720: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:22:03 AM

Better yet, the media played up Clinton's scandals while downplaying Trump's, and gave virtually no airtime to issues of policy.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166721: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:23:41 AM

[up] Specifically, they didn't give a lot of airtime to any one Trump scandal. Trump paradoxically benefited from having too many scandals to cover.

HRC on other hand...EMAILEMAILEMAIL

edited 14th Jan '17 9:24:10 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#166722: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:23:42 AM

I'll even go a step further.

Aside from Obama and Joe, HRC is my favorite modern US politician. Unquestionably my favorite female Politician. Warren has jack shit on her, tbh.

I sometimes listen to her when she's not campaigning and just speaking on issues she's knowledgable about and holy fuck is her voice not only soothing, but I *know* she's speaking from position of having actual knowledge.

Am I fanboying? Yes, you bet your ass I am.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:30:07 AM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#166723: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:25:40 AM

[up] Too bad anti-elitism and anti-intellectualism are prevalent enough in this country that even her strengths were used against her.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:25:57 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166724: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:27:14 AM

I like Warren, and even had some respect for Sanders before he went down a rabbit hole. But the thing is that, while Warren and Sanders are Single Issue Wonks about certain topics — and they are valid topics, don't get me wrong — HRC is a true generalist, with a broad range of experience on matters economic and social, foreign and domestic, civilian and military. The President needs to have a broad focus, and hire people to handle the specifics rather than get lost in the weeds.

edited 14th Jan '17 9:27:32 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#166725: Jan 14th 2017 at 9:27:49 AM

YMMV I guess, I never found Hillary's style of speech to be endearing. "Grating" or "wet blanket" is the first thing that comes to my mind if I were to think of ways to describe it.


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