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DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#166201: Jan 11th 2017 at 12:59:10 PM

So no one cares about the payoffs, you know the allegation of actual collusion.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166202: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:00:07 PM

[up][up][up]Tillerson articulated a consistent realist foreign policy worldview in the vein of Kissinger, which is presumably why the man himself endorsed him. That's far, far from ideal, but definitely one of the least fucked up picks.

edited 11th Jan '17 1:00:54 PM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#166203: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:02:49 PM

allegation that the Russians have (undisclosed) compromising material on Trump, including "perverted sexual acts"

I'd bet money that the Russians have a sex tape of Trump and his daughter.

[up] It's Realist to ally with Russia as an equal, being a Russia's puppet is not Realism. Kissinger is a fool who thinks he can control Trump and get a non-puppeted foreign policy out of him.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#166204: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:07:28 PM

Come on, this is exactly what the right does to Obama and Michelle, calling them apes and such. I think we can hold ourselves to a higher standard? Let's criticize what the guy actually says and does (of which there is PLENTY), and refrain from childish name-calling.
Agreed. And with my country's particular strain of populism using "gorilla" as the insult of choice for people who don't follow their ideology, I'd rather not have the same terminology used here.

edited 11th Jan '17 1:16:37 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166205: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:14:13 PM

[up][up] That rather depends on Trump and the extent to which he is actually compromised. Kissinger is apparently able to get him on the phone at any hour of the day and has spent an unusual amount of time giving advice for a 93 year old man, which further cements the notion that Trump is a massive Nixon fanboy.

edited 11th Jan '17 1:16:34 PM by CaptainCapsase

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#166206: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:15:21 PM

Interesting article about this whole thing from a former NSA officer:

http://observer.com/2017/01/donald-trump-press-conference-prague-michael-cohen/

There is a darker possibility, however—namely that the dossier was leaked to muddy the waters, perhaps even to distract from even more troubling information about Trump’s ties to the Kremlin. Russian intelligence calls this provokatsiya—provocation—and it’s as commonplace as kompromat in their ranks. This wouldn’t be the first time that Kremlin spies leaked secret information, partly true, to throw spies and journalists off the real trail. “It would be what I’d do,” explained a former KGB senior officer whom I’ve known for years. Possessing long experience with provocation against Western governments, my friend added how Russian spies would approach this: “I would certainly let the media know some of what we have on Trump, to confuse reporters, and also to let the new president know we can take him down at any time, so he better do what Moscow wants.”

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#166207: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:16:12 PM

EDIT

Nevermind tasteless and unfunny

edited 11th Jan '17 1:18:28 PM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#166208: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:16:55 PM

{WashingtonPost} Clinton warrior David Brock offers an apology — and his allegiance — to Bernie Sanders, that title sounds kinda like pulp-medieval fantasy. Funny thing, he made a little PAC called "Correct The Record".

EDIT: Mad Skillz? Observer is owned by Trump's son in law.

EDIT 2: Also, since I used the term "Bernie Or Buster" in the red CTR link, I'll remind you, as always, that whenever I use the term, I am talking specifically about the subset of Sanders supporters that voted something other than Clinton in the general (not in the primaries) and have now decided that they should pontify to everyone in earshot that Bernie should've been made candidate because le WWC. Anyone else who supported or still supports Bernie is not included in the statement.

edited 11th Jan '17 1:30:47 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166209: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:23:47 PM

[up] It is, and in regards to the surreal disinformation campaign, it's entirely possible this is Bannon doing his best to imitate the Russian style of gaslighting disinformation campaign, which is something he more or less openly claimed to be doing.

edited 11th Jan '17 1:25:44 PM by CaptainCapsase

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#166210: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:28:24 PM

Although I agree with treating the claims with some skepticism, I'm also skeptical of the idea that Russia is playing some kind of brilliant I Know You Know I Know because as I understand it, that information wasn't leaked directly by Russia or its channels (i.e. Wikileaks). It came from U.S. and British intelligence sources who were citing Russian agents.

And more importantly, media outlets knew of this for a while and essentially was reported on by Buzzfeed (forcing mainstream networks to cover it) as a way of harming Trump. Which seems to have worked, given Trump's enraged responses.

So, it seems doubtful to me that this was a fake story created by Russia because they had no way of knowing when or if that information would leak (since they weren't the ones who leaked it), and the way Trump is responding implies that if it is a False Flag Operation, it's not one that he's in on.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#166211: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:40:50 PM

“If Putin likes Donald Trump, guess what folks, that’s called an asset, not a liability.”

To be fair, I'm fairly sure he meant it along the lines of "If Putin likes me, that means I can use HIM without him realizing it!" However, Trump has not proven himself to be that canny - Putin, however, has, with his response to the ejection of Russian diplomats being "We'll take the high road here and not respond in kind". That was incredibly savvy, and makes out like Russia isn't as bad as people think, since he knows it was only a matter of weeks before a Useful Idiot gets into the White House.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#166212: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:43:31 PM

I think Kasparov said it the best. Putin is an authoritarian leader, therefore he is incapable of playing chess, which is a strategic perfect information game. He plays poker, and is very good at bluffing and has gauged his adversaries reactions.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#166213: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:47:43 PM

[up] That's geopolitics in general, not just authoritarian leaders.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#166215: Jan 11th 2017 at 1:57:47 PM

Authoritarian leaders play poker with their own people.


Donald Trump is watching you from where he waits, eternally in the void between worlds.

edited 11th Jan '17 1:59:51 PM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#166216: Jan 11th 2017 at 2:12:01 PM

[up][up]It really pains me to have spent some time following those /pol/ threads to see what they were up to.

Inter arma enim silent leges
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#166217: Jan 11th 2017 at 2:12:49 PM

So apparently WSJ has released the agent's name.

Also the new twist is that Jeb Bush is the one that originally hired him.

Jeb and Mc Cain are heroes if this ends up taking down Trump.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#166218: Jan 11th 2017 at 2:14:49 PM

Probably a payback from the Bush family and Mc Cain for all the shit flinging Trump did to them.

Inter arma enim silent leges
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#166219: Jan 11th 2017 at 2:23:39 PM

I don't think the BBC has claimed to have video/audio of it, they've seen the report from the guy claiming to have learned of it. Larry Flynt, however, has offered a million-dollar bounty if an FSB agent gets that recording to him.

They told him that Mr Trump had been filmed with a group of prostitutes in the presidential suite of Moscow's Ritz-Carlton hotel. I know this because the Washington political research company that commissioned his report showed it to me during the final week of the election campaign.

The BBC decided not to use it then, for the very good reason that without seeing the tape - if it exists - we could not know if the claims were true. The detail of the allegations were certainly lurid. The entire series of reports has now been posted by Buzz Feed.

edited 11th Jan '17 2:32:53 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#166220: Jan 11th 2017 at 2:31:47 PM

-Trump is about to be inaugurated in as president and then the CIA and DC police crash the party and arrest Trump and Pence. -

-they're both led out in handcuffs and then Jeb steps out of the FBI car having just been voted in as president by a special session of Congress-

Trump: YOU?!?!?

Jeb: You know what I like about turtles. They always start slow and seem like they're about to lose but they win in the end. You were the arrogant, lazy, no good rabbit. But me, I was the turtle. Hard-working and determined. You lose, Mr. Trump. Please clap!

Trump: -melts into a puddle of incoherency-

Jeb: And don't you ever talk about my mother that way again. Get this traitor out of my sight, boys!

edited 11th Jan '17 2:33:09 PM by MadSkillz

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#166221: Jan 11th 2017 at 2:37:16 PM

Except with a thick southern drawl.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#166222: Jan 11th 2017 at 2:50:53 PM

But really probably none of this stuff is going to touch Pence. So that's what you're left with if Trump goes down- a guy who may not be a good person, but at least isn't a Russian puppet.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#166223: Jan 11th 2017 at 3:00:18 PM

Maybe Pence can up the sanctions on Russia, to show he's not a puppet. Hell, he can invest more in green technology, to keep Putin on the defensive economics-wise.

And while I'm wishing, I'd like a million dollars.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#166224: Jan 11th 2017 at 3:01:21 PM

If Trump is taken out before he's inaugurated then I think it's actually Biden who becomes president.

But anyways if they can prove everything here then I think Pence does down too.

Pence was picked by a Manafort, a Russian stooge, and the report says there were various people in his campaign team who knew. Pence isn't trustworthy enough at that point.

So Trump's whole cabinet goes down and Paul Ryan becomes president.

The idea of Paul Ryan falling into the presidency is amusing. Horrific but amusing and better than what we have now.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#166225: Jan 11th 2017 at 3:06:11 PM

A very interesting piece from Tillerson:

I think he also called for China to leave the South China Sea, and even compared it to Crimea.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

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