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IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165626: Jan 7th 2017 at 6:35:40 AM

[up][up][up]Relevant.

Edit: To make this a useful comment, Here's a vox article saying Democrats need to focus on putting people on office more than anything else.

edited 7th Jan '17 6:37:19 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#165627: Jan 7th 2017 at 6:44:47 AM

[up] [up]Clinton won the PV by three million. They weren't that wrong.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#165628: Jan 7th 2017 at 6:48:20 AM

I am inclined to agree with I Fwanderer. Too much focus on the presidential race did hurt the Democrats. And the next opportunities in 2018 will be the non-presidential elections, of course.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#165629: Jan 7th 2017 at 7:21:51 AM

So, a focus on state and local elections and, behind them, constant agitation in the background by persons in the community.
Would that involve ceding the presidency for a cycle? Not only does that race take up a disproportionate amount of resources and the democrats would be feeling out an unfamiliar strategy at the same time, but the President gets the blame for everything that goes wrong at home and abroad and that tends to cost legislature seats and governorships.

edited 7th Jan '17 7:23:09 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#165630: Jan 7th 2017 at 7:43:47 AM

Not really, as there is already 4 years which have been ceded.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#165631: Jan 7th 2017 at 7:46:39 AM

Edit - put this on the next page, because I know a Wall of Text won't be read when it's the page-bottomer.

edited 7th Jan '17 7:50:31 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#165632: Jan 7th 2017 at 7:46:58 AM

I'd say that getting Democratic presidential voters to turn out for elections during non-election years alone should help a lot, and not necessitate throwing the presidential one.

See the 2014 Senate elections. There have been some online rumblings about doing just that after said elections, but now that this cycle is done and dusted with, the amount of people demanding full luxury communism now online seems to be much higher than that.

[up]I swear, there was this one documentary on the History Channel once that covered Echelon...

edited 7th Jan '17 7:48:21 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#165633: Jan 7th 2017 at 7:47:42 AM

Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) will be running for reelection in 2018.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#165634: Jan 7th 2017 at 7:49:54 AM

RE: Electoral College

I'd be for a change to it - namely, keep the EC in place, but have apportioned voting. That way blue voters in "Red" States don't get marginalized, nor do red voters in "Blue" States. For example, NY had 29 EC votes, and went 58.4% Clinton, 36.15% Trump, 2.26% Johnson, 1.38% Stein. That would break down to ~17 EC votes to Clinton, ~10 votes for Trump, and ~1 vote for Johnson (leaving 1 vote in the air due to Stein and McMullin splitting it), a loss of 12 EC votes for Clinton, gain of 10 for Trump. Conversely, Texas had 36 EC votes, and went 52.23% Trump, 43.24% Clinton, and 3.16% Johnson, which breaks down to ~19 EC votes to Trump, ~16 votes for Clinton, and 1 vote for Johnson, making that a net gain of 4 votes for Clinton, 2 votes for Johnson, and net loss of 7 votes for Trump.

It has the double effect of putting a much-deserved axe into the "Winner takes all" approach to Statewide elections and helping the 3rd parties gain more notoriety when they actually do win EC votes, while also diffusing blame for their "throwing the election" by eliminating the possibility for them to act as a "spoiler" to the preferred candidate(s).

As for Wikileaks and Snowden, I really wish people would stop putting him into the same boat as Wikileaks - he may have gone about it in a dumb way, but his full intent was to stop the US government from spying on its own citizens by drawing attention to the fact that it was happening.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#165635: Jan 7th 2017 at 8:25:16 AM

"Would that involve ceding the presidency for a cycle? "

The two are not mutually exclusive. The Republicans built local organizations that work with national efforts to elect people to federal office. From that article:

"...During the Obama years, the Democratic National Committee and the party’s Senate, House, and gubernatorial campaign committees have done little more than fundraise for election years, and Obama’s Organizing for America operated mainly as a personal reelection machine. Sadly, President Obama also delayed replacing Debbie Wasserman Schultz, his ineffective part-time head of the DNC, until way too late. In recent years, Democratic Party committees have remained robust fundraisers, but they have atrophied as organizational presences in many states and localities.

That has to change. Although it might make sense as a long-term strategy, it is now too late to build an extra-party federation like Americans for Prosperity to take up the slack from beleaguered unions. The Democratic Party itself has to be beefed up and redirected into a year-round organizing operation — right now. A new head of the DNC will soon be chosen, and he or she has to be a nuts-and-bolts reformer, not just a show horse or protest organizer."

Also from that article was a link to a manual to resisting the Trump administration, written by a group of former democratic party congressional staffers. Here's a selection of quotes:

"Like us, you probably deeply disagree with the principles and positions of the Tea Party. But we can all learn from their success in influencing the national debate and the behavior of national policymakers. To their credit, they thought thoroughly about advocacy tactics, as the leaked “Town Hall Action Memo” demonstrates...

...The Tea Party’s success came down to two critical strategic elements:

1. They were locally focused. The Tea Party started as an organic movement built on small local groups of dedicated conservatives. Yes, they received some support/coordination from above, but fundamentally all the hubbub was caused by a relatively small number of conservatives working together....

2. They were almost purely defensive. The Tea Party focused on saying NO to Members of Congress (Mo Cs) on their home turf. While the Tea Party activists were united by a core set of shared beliefs, they actively avoided developing their own policy agenda. Instead, they had an extraordinary clarity of purpose, united in opposition to President Obama. They didn’t accept concessions and treated weak Republicans as traitors."

We can do this too. Google "Trump Protest [your state or locality]" to find out where to join.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165636: Jan 7th 2017 at 9:19:12 AM

[up]Apart from the indivisible guide, some former tv producers did another focused on how to make tv news listen called the indivertible guide. You may want to check that one out too.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#165637: Jan 7th 2017 at 9:20:44 AM

The thing about the tea party comparison is that they had quite many incumbent republicans to threaten and use to block government action. The democrats as of this cycle are more of a symbolic opposition than a force that can block government action, even if all of their traditional voters wrote to them or phoned in. The issue with pressuring republicans is how well will they respond to persons who do not traditionally vote R in any case? The tea parties also showed characteristics of a mass movement. That type of commitment does not come about in ordinary times or to normal organizations.

The thing about ceding the presidency, I meant putting all available resources into rebuilding the party on the state and local level as quickly and extensively as possible and not taking the essentially automatic hit that comes with holding the the White House. The organization that the article mentions sounds like it'll take quite some time, and longer if voter suppression laws, SLAP Ps, and other measures start intensifying.

The main problem, I'll acknowledge with that suggestion is the federal court system that already has current vacancies. This election means that nothing like the Warren court will show up again. And I really do not count on states to support civil rights. However, if chasing the presidency can be self-destructive and chasing legislature seats and state governments needs an organization capable overcoming decades of gerrymandering and voter apathy (not to mention the results of Shelby County), but is the main means of supporting new generations of democratic leaders then we might start to think of either helping the next generation to enjoy opportunity and equal citizenship or creating gradually expanding islands where that's supportable.

edited 7th Jan '17 9:23:52 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#165638: Jan 7th 2017 at 9:22:38 AM

The Tea Party did not threaten just Republicans.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#165639: Jan 7th 2017 at 9:32:14 AM

I thought that Tea Party was an astroturf?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#165640: Jan 7th 2017 at 9:38:42 AM

Apologies, that astroturf reference went over my head. (I swear I don't live in a cave.)

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#165641: Jan 7th 2017 at 9:54:29 AM

[up]In this context it's shorthand for "fake grassroots".

Essentially it refers to a movement that appears to be driven primarily by the individual supporters, but is actually being primarily driven by a handful of wealthy and influential supporters who may not even be true believers and instead have pragmatic reasons for supporting the movement.

edited 7th Jan '17 9:55:13 AM by Falrinn

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#165642: Jan 7th 2017 at 10:16:43 AM

[up] A cynical worldview would suggest that's almost always the case with so called popular uprisings, and even when it isn't, power hungry opportunists will almost always rise to leadership positions within the movement simply because the dynamics of power strongly select for such people.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165643: Jan 7th 2017 at 10:17:00 AM

Trump's kind of being a bit too obvious here.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#165644: Jan 7th 2017 at 10:17:20 AM

Oh, thanks.

And most mass movements are just like that. One of their defining features is a disregard for the present and mutual support of some inarguable faith in some vaguely defined but always glorious future that the leaders of the movement do not necessarily believe in but can cater to.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#165645: Jan 7th 2017 at 10:26:29 AM

I like that it took him at least 12 minutes to finish that thought. Can't tell exactly how long because of hour-rounding.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#165646: Jan 7th 2017 at 10:31:30 AM

Having a good relationship with Russia is one thing. Sticking your nose so far up Putin's ass that you make Pinocchio look like a pug... that's something else entirely.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#165647: Jan 7th 2017 at 10:51:09 AM

The only question really is how far Trump's "reality distortion field" will get him. He's clearly got a very special sort of charisma, particularly in person, but he's so utterly ignorant and inept at anything outside of that narrow area that I feel like things can't keep just going his way forever. On the other hand, other world leaders are people to.

edited 7th Jan '17 10:51:42 AM by CaptainCapsase

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#165648: Jan 7th 2017 at 11:33:52 AM

Man, I hate RDF, but it must be nice to have one...

edited 7th Jan '17 11:34:18 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#165649: Jan 7th 2017 at 12:09:09 PM

Russian official: 'Republicans trust Putin more than the Democrats'

Jesus.

At this point, I wonder if Republicans would support ISIS if they knew 100% it would hurt the Democrats politically

New Survey coming this weekend!
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#165650: Jan 7th 2017 at 12:26:39 PM

[up] Yes. Yes, they would. Assuming their support of ISIS's preferred candidate isn't considered supporting them anyway.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary

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