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IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165551: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:15:31 PM

The intelligence report on Russian Intervention in the Election.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#165553: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:26:49 PM

[up] Russia wanted to undermine Clinton's presidency and if possible get Trump elected because of an expectation that Russia would be in a better position negotiating with Trump than with Clinton. Putin may be serious about wanting to improve relations with the United States at least in the short term, but only on his own terms. It is also likely that Russia hopes to gain the cooperation of the United States and its allies against ISIS, the elimination of which from eastern Syria would significantly bolster the currently shaky prospects of the allied Assad regime.

edited 6th Jan '17 1:29:08 PM by CaptainCapsase

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#165554: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:28:00 PM

Donald Trump just settled a political score in Ohio

Normally we wouldn't interrupt our regularly scheduled programming about Donald Trump's bashing of Arnold Schwarzenegger to tell you who 65 Ohio Republicans voted for to lead their state party.

But this involves Trump, too. In fact, Trump was likely paying close attention to how those 65 Republicans in Ohio voted Friday —- and he's likely happy with the outcome.

The chair of the Ohio GOP party, Matt Borges, lost reelection Friday amid complaints he wasn't loyal to Trump during the campaign. After a close vote that took several rounds, the new chair will be Jane Timken, who was consistently loyal to Trump. (Timken will also be the first female leader of Ohio GOP.)

3 3 Retweets 2 2 likes This vote was arguably a proxy battle for the direction of Ohio's Republican Party — and a glimpse of how focused Trump can be on settling political scores, no matter how minor.

The president-elect personally called some of the undecided members this week to lobby for the eventual winner, while Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) — who never endorsed Trump during the election — made calls for his guy, Borges.

In some respects, the proxy battle was even bigger than just Trump v. Kasich. Ohio Republicans tasked with choosing between the two's choice for leaders also faced a broader decision: Whether the state's Republican Party should realign itself to Trump.

It's a question facing much of the Republican establishment across the country. By and large, the Republican Party's leaders were never that enamored with Trump, who is often at odds with traditional GOP orthodoxy. Now that Trump won, these leaders must chose how to interpret his victory: Is a Trump presidency a four-to-eight-year detour for the party, or does it signify a fundamental shift within the party?

One thing that's crystal clear is the message this result sends every GOP elected official and party leader in the country: confront Trump at your political peril — he does not forget a slight.

This tension was particularly acute in Ohio even before Friday's leadership election. When the nation was shocked by Trump's "Access Hollywood" hot mic tape in October, Borges told Republicans they wouldn't be punished if they wanted to take back their endorsements of Trump.

A week later, the head of Trump's campaign in Ohio severed ties with Borges. It was a jaw-dropping move that came just 24 days before the election. The campaign accused the state party chair of trying to undermine Trump's general election campaign in that critical swing state. (Several Ohio Republican leaders came to Borges's defense.)

After all that drama, the voters of Ohio came around to Trump anyway. Kasich beat Trump by more than 10 points in Ohio's presidential primary, and yet Trump beat Hillary Clinton by nearly 10 points in the general election.

While the realignment of the Republican Party to Trump is certainly something we'd expect Trump and his allies to be interested in, it was frankly surprising just how involved Trump got at settling this particular score.

The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that when Trump called some of the undecided voters this week — on the same day he was expected to sit for hours in a deposition — some of them thought it was a joke.

“This is the leader-of-the-free-world-to-be, and you would think of all the appointments that he's doing and all the people he’s filling his cabinet with and getting ready for the inauguration, why would he take the time out to call me?" Milford's Greg Simpson told them.

Looks like those calls worked, and Trump can notch another victory in Ohio. Republicans outside of Ohio who had beef with Trump during the election are surely taking note.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#165555: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:30:05 PM

Key Judgments

Russian efforts to influence the 2016 US presidential election represent the most recent expression of Moscow’s longstanding desire to undermine the US-led liberal democratic order, but these activities demonstrated a significant escalation in directness, level of activity, and scope of effort compared to previous operations.

We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.

  • We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him. All three agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment; NSA has moderate confidence.
  • Moscow’s approach evolved over the course of the campaign based on Russia’s understanding of the electoral prospects of the two main candidates. When it appeared to Moscow that Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the Russian influence campaign began to focus more on undermining her future presidency.
  • Further information has come to light since Election Day that, when combined with Russian behavior since early November 2016, increases our confidence in our assessments of Russian motivations and goals. Moscow’s influence campaign followed a Russian messaging strategy that blends covert intelligence operations—such as cyber activity—with overt efforts by Russian Government agencies, state-funded media, third-party intermediaries, and paid social media users or “trolls.” Russia, like its Soviet predecessor, has a history of conducting covert influence campaigns focused on US presidential elections that have used intelligence officers and agents and press placements to disparage candidates perceived as hostile to the Kremlin.
  • Russia’s intelligence services conducted cyber operations against targets associated with the 2016 US presidential election, including targets associated with both major US political parties.
  • We assess with high confidence that Russian military intelligence (General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate or GRU) used the Guccifer 2.0 persona and DC Leaks.com to release US victim data obtained in cyber operations publicly and in exclusives to media outlets and relayed material to Wiki Leaks.
  • Russian intelligence obtained and maintained access to elements of multiple US state or local electoral boards. DHS assesses that the types of systems Russian actors targeted or compromised were not involved in vote tallying.
  • Russia’s state-run propaganda machine contributed to the influence campaign by serving as a platform for Kremlin messaging to Russian and international audiences. We assess Moscow will apply lessons learned from its Putin-ordered campaign aimed at the US presidential election to future influence efforts worldwide, including against US allies and their election processes.

edited 6th Jan '17 1:31:41 PM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#165556: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:35:10 PM

So nothing we didn't already know. Okay then.tongue

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#165557: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:37:08 PM

Basically. For those who have been paying attention, the report offers no new information, and is hardly the groundbreaking bombshell people have been building it up as.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#165558: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:43:46 PM

It's important to keep in mind that Trump only ever talked about Mexico, which is only one country in Latin America. They might not necessarily have that much to gain by intervening in other countries' affairs, although I would not be surprised if they collaborated in installing reactionary right-wing regimes just like they did in the past.

It's probably going to depend on if the leadership down here makes any noise or proves to be uncooperative with US interests.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#165559: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:44:00 PM

Well there's just no denying it now though.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#165560: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:51:24 PM

"Not a groundbreaking bombshell" is one of those horrible normalizing statements that helps make this entire process feel so hopeless. Russia interfered deliberately with US elections. In olden days, that would have been a casus belli. The fact that the intelligence report does not contain anything that was not already surmised or known about doesn't change the fact that it should be treated as a national security crisis of extraordinary proportions.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#165561: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:51:45 PM

[up][up]Not that Trump and/or the GOP won't try, mind you.

edited 6th Jan '17 1:51:59 PM by sgamer82

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#165562: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:57:35 PM

BUT THE WMDS

"Yup. That tasted purple."
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#165563: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:57:44 PM

Russian efforts to influence the 2016 US presidential election represent the most recent expression of Moscow's longstanding desire to undermine the US led liberal democratic order , but these activities demonstrated a significant escalation in directness, level of activity, and scope of effort compared to previous operations. We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President elect Trump.

We assess Moscow will apply lessons learned from its Putin ordered campaign aimed at the US presidential election to future influence efforts worldwide, including against US allies and their election processes.

Pretty much means that the Russian disinformation campaign worked and the CIA, NSA and FBI all knew the Russians were attempting to influence the US electoral system for a while, which means Commey is a fucking useful idiot for the Russians.

From what I am reading so far I can highlight this:

  • The Russians want to undermine a liberal led US government and undermine the US government institutions
  • Putin has a personal vendetta against Hillary over the Panama papers and for attributing to her the protests against his governments
  • Putin was always favorable to Trump but refrained from directly praising him to avoid any backfire and also put a halt on the pundits from criticizing the US election system as unfair after Trump won
  • Putin has experience with dealing with leaders with assets and business interests that may include Russia, which Trump's appointees certainly do.
  • Russian use of third party assets allowed them to operate under plausible deniability
  • The methods used in the US election aren't new since they have been honing and experimenting them in the Russian republics beforehand
  • All of the operations related to campaign to influence the US elections came from the Russian higher ups
  • Guccifer 2.0, the responsible for the DNC leaks, isn't a person it is a GRU group tasked with collecting and releasing information from parties, lobbies and think tanks capable of shaping the US political system
  • Wikileaks was used to mask Russian involvement with the hacks
  • The GRU is/was collecting relevant information about US officials, probably for blackmail potential
  • The Russians gave favorable treatment for Assange and aligned him with Russia Today for propaganda purposes
  • The Russians researched means to tamper with the US election boards and machines
  • The Russian propaganda Tools like RT and Sputnik have been flooding the internet with pro-Trump propaganda including casting him and the Anti-Globalism, Anti-Establishment and Anti-Corruption candidate
  • The sheer majority of the Fake news related to Hillary have come from Russian outlets through Wikileaks and other fake news spam like: Her health issues, the emails, the Clinton Charity fraud and election rigging against Trump
  • The use of fake posters and paid trolls to flood the comment sections of news websites and social media to skew the public opinion
  • The Russians have attempted to tamper with the US election processes before during the Cold War but this time they escalated the effort and scales involved
  • This type of tampering will become the norm for the Russian government to spread its influence abroad
  • They will focus doing the same thing they did to the United States to Europe.

In other worlds, the democratic process in the liberal led democracies in the world is in for a bad time from now on.

edited 6th Jan '17 2:00:15 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#165564: Jan 6th 2017 at 1:58:36 PM

[up][up][up] Speaking of Trump: Trump admits Government's (not just Russia) Hacked DNC, but says it didn't affect Election.

I really think Trump is on thin ice, with the Republicans, with the American Public, and especially with the Intelligence Offices and Democrats.

edited 6th Jan '17 1:58:49 PM by DingoWalley1

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#165565: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:08:39 PM

[up] The thing is, does the GOP have enough integrity to do something about that, or will they just let Trump and Putin destroy all pretenses of this country being a democratic republic just to stick it to the public and especially the Democrats? Personally, my money's on the latter.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165566: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:17:21 PM

You guys really need to redo the election, without allowing Trump to run (or for that matter Hillary, so no one can say it's because you want to give her a coronation). And remove the EC while you're at it.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#165567: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:18:06 PM

My thoughts on Trump's "plan" to pay for the wall by what is basically extortion:

...this might be one of the worst things he has said and will do so far yet. I genuinely hate this man.

Disgusted, but not surprised
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#165568: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:19:22 PM

I'm kind of afraid to ask, but what would the pros and cons of eliminating the EC be?

Do not obey in advance.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#165569: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:21:13 PM

A shift of political power from voters in swing states to voters in larger states that are not by default part of their majority.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#165570: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:21:56 PM

[up][up] Pros: Our elections will actually be more democratic. One person, one vote. Every voter's vote will count regardless of where they live. A Republican can vote in a Blue state and a Democrat can vote in a Red state without feeling like it's a waste. Also wouldn't have to worry about so-called faithless electors.

Cons: ...Honestly, none. Small states wouldn't be more marginalized — most of them already are even with the EC.

edited 6th Jan '17 2:23:03 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#165571: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:27:25 PM

The Republicans would no longer be able to win national elections. All pro in my book, con in quite a few others'.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#165572: Jan 6th 2017 at 2:30:16 PM

So long as 40% of white people in this country have sense, and if the EC was gone, GOP would never ever control the White House.

New Survey coming this weekend!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#165573: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:00:27 PM

Well, the GOP as it currently is. In the event of the removal of the EC, the GOP would be forced to adapt much of its platform. It wouldn't stay static simply because parties have rarely stayed static: they change or the members leave and join other parties. And since removing the EC alone wouldn't change FPTP the GOP would likely remain as a much changed organization. (And likely to have been changed somewhat beforehand, in an environment where removing the EC is possible.)

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#165574: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:02:05 PM

A Canadian judge has been suspended for wearing a MAGA hat in court.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-judge-who-wore-trump-hat-no-longer-allowed-to-hear-cases-1.3923935

Good riddance.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#165575: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:08:20 PM

[up] Can we please borrow your government, Canada? Ours is on the fritz right now.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary

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