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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#165376: Jan 5th 2017 at 10:46:55 AM

They don't value the lives of their public servants, or they value Israeli feelings more at least.

There is no other way to explain this.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#165377: Jan 5th 2017 at 10:48:54 AM

[up] Can't it be both?

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#165378: Jan 5th 2017 at 10:50:09 AM

Being a Republican means never having to say you're sorry.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#165379: Jan 5th 2017 at 10:50:11 AM

@Rational Insanity: They value human life so little (despite their "pro-life" claims) that I think if they ever got their hands on the Death Star, they'd turn Earth into the new Alderaan just for fun.

edited 5th Jan '17 10:50:45 AM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#165380: Jan 5th 2017 at 10:52:22 AM

I mean, pro-Israel figures around the world have been hit with the generally slanderous statement that they "care about Israel more than their own country", but this is literally what this is.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#165381: Jan 5th 2017 at 10:52:29 AM

Quit it with the hyperbole.

But yeah, warped minds.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#165382: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:01:05 AM

@Hodor2

Just because the USSR is gone doesn't mean the Red Scare trope doesn't still apply. Even though they're no longer communists, the Russians are still seen as the scary foreigners by many Americans.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#165383: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:09:47 AM

Not without good reason considering recent events and Russian hostility since 2008

Oh really when?
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#165384: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:11:54 AM

[up][up] Actually, I think both of you are correct: Red Scare doesn't apply anymore, but now we have Make the Bear Angry Again instead.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#165385: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:13:43 AM

Moving the American Embassy to Jerusalem is just dumb. It doesn't matter what you think about Israel and Jerusalem and the whole situation...Jerusalem is not the capital of the modern state of Israel! You put the embassy in the capital so that there's easy access to the local government. Sticking it in Jerusalem means that A) the embassy is now in a contested area, thus meaning that there are times when no one will go there while Tel Aviv tends to be safer and B) it will be way harder for the normal operations to function properly. Even if the whole territory issue was settled tomorrow and Jerusalem was declared to officially be the property of Israel...the government would probably still be in Tel Aviv because that's where the infrastructure is.

edited 5th Jan '17 11:14:25 AM by Zendervai

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165386: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:18:42 AM

[up]From Wikipedia's Jerusalem article (emphasis added):

Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as the State of Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there while the State of Palestine ultimately foresees the city as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely recognized internationally.

I'd count that as being the (unrecognized) capital.

edited 5th Jan '17 11:19:10 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#165387: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:21:16 AM

Something I don't get about the Republicans being so brazen is just why they do it. I mean, I get they have terrible ideas but haven't they seen enough by now to know anything that obvious will be backlashed? Are they so far gone that they even need to be told to Do Wrong, Right and at least try to be discreet?

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165388: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:23:07 AM

[up]Post truth world. Any bad thing that happens as consequence of their bullshit is a consequence of the dems' sabotage..

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#165389: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:26:44 AM

[up][up] I think they've gotten to the point where their thought process is "The Democrats don't like this and they're THE ENEMY", but they don't put any effort into learning why the Democrats don't like those things.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#165390: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:26:46 AM

They lied, went to the extreme and won an election. They've got no reason to start being decent human beings now.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#165391: Jan 5th 2017 at 11:31:17 AM

They reckon they got the go ahead due to the amount of voters who reckoned that being blatantly trampled over was a net positive change from the status quo.

Government officials claim that they only got evidence regarding Russian hacking after the election.

Now that he has threatened Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Motors and Ford, Trump is now threatening Toyota with a tariff over their planned factory in Mexico.

Right, someone go get an eyeball on his stock purchases. I'm not sure if Fiat Chrysler America could weather the hit from such a threat as well as the others.

Well, it's not like some big company can actually respond with "fuck off, you haven't even actually assumed the job and you are already threatening American jobs by threatening the prospects of their employers" and not disavow the PR person in charge afterwards...

EDIT: Reuters breaking is claiming that Toyota has officially stated that the Mexico plant will not cost US jobs and that it 'looks forward to collaborating with the Trump administration'

edited 5th Jan '17 11:45:01 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#165392: Jan 5th 2017 at 12:20:07 PM

I am honestly expecting Trump to just, in a year or so, introduce the 'Free Care Act' or the 'America's Great Health Act' whose effectively just the ACA after a Intern did a Search/Replace with 'Obama' and 'Trump'.

"You can reply to this Message!"
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#165394: Jan 5th 2017 at 12:47:14 PM

Not sure if this falls under #Trumpgrets as the author has been backtracking a lot regarding his support for Trump, but here's a Jalopnik editorial piece on the obvious: Trump's tweets directed at various manufacturers are horrifying.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#165395: Jan 5th 2017 at 1:26:24 PM

So, we all know this is yet another moonshot, but tomorrow a couple of House Democrats are apparently planning to challenge Trump's electoral victory, on the grounds that (as the article previously linked here mentioned) 50 of those electors were illegitimate. But we need at least one senator to back it as well, or it goes nowhere.

People are - you guessed it - being urged to call their senators and ask them to support it. A script is available here. Remember - as we saw with the ethics changes, pressure from constituents works. We've got to grab every chance.

Also, Five Reasons the McCain Cyberwarfare Hearing Should Worry Trump.

1. McCain and others were careful to separate the issue of national security from the notion that Russia could have swayed election results. Clapper made this clear as well, saying that there is simply no way of knowing whether votes were changed. Trump has been using — or reacting to — the insinuation that he didn't win without Russian help to dismiss the entire cyberattack issue, making him sound like Vladimir Putin's defense counsel. Senators, by separating that issue from the Russian threat, will force the president-elect and his nominees to confront Russian interference with Western elections and other anti-Western activities.

2. Trump's ongoing defense of Russia and citation of Julian Assange look even more ridiculous. Both Clapper and Rogers said they didn't have faith in Assange's credibility. (That's also bad news for the Fox News evening hosts who have feted him and cited him as a credible person.) The testimony that the witnesses jointly submitted was explicit: "Russia is a full-scope cyber actor that poses a major threat to the U.S. government, military, diplomatic, commercial and critical infrastructure and key resource networks." Trump will have a hard time disputing this if he wants to maintain the support of Republicans and the public at large.

3. Trump's nominees will have no choice but to address the issue, the testimony and the facts raised in the hearing. (Does Rex W. Tillerson agree with the testimony or not? If not, what is his basis?) If the nominees refuse to answer or if they embrace Trump's pro-Putin stance, they stand a solid chance of being blocked.

4. Democrats continue to demand that an independent select committee be created. That's a popular position with voters, and it puts pressure on both the House and Senate to show that they can run credible, effective and timely investigations.

5. The intelligence agencies will release their unclassified report next week and will brief members of Congress on the classified report. Clapper said he would err on the side of disclosure in the unclassified report. Should Trump begin disparaging the testimony, he runs the risk of being contradicted by the authoritative final report. He will get his own briefing tomorrow. If Trump continues to deny reality, President Obama may decide to declassify everything and/or intelligence leaks may follow.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#165396: Jan 5th 2017 at 1:28:30 PM

From the article: "...What sets a dangerous precedent is that in all of these instances, Trump, and Trump alone, is the arbiter of which businesses may live and which may die, based on criteria that his personal businesses don’t even follow..."

That, from a conservative.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#165397: Jan 5th 2017 at 1:34:39 PM

[up][up]I'm really worried that if that works, it comes back to bite the democrats by nuking them in congress (harder) in 2018 and handing the WH to a Republican in 2020 no matter what.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#165398: Jan 5th 2017 at 1:35:43 PM

[up][up][up] And like I said before; Congress has to appear Anti-Russian for at least 6 Months, especially because of this Report. Rex Tillerson has a very very very strong chance of being Scapegoated (IE, he doesn't get the Sec. of State job because he's Pro-Russian, even if every other Pro-Russian pick gets their job), and Trump looks like a fool regardless.

[up] I don't see how. If anything, the Democrats proving they want what's best for the Nation while the Republicans (especially Trump) want to weaken the Checks and Balances of the System will make the Democrat Victory (at least in the House) even Greater.

edited 5th Jan '17 1:37:47 PM by DingoWalley1

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#165399: Jan 5th 2017 at 1:40:21 PM

[up] Tillerson comes with some VERY high profile endorsements, among them Henry Kissinger, Robert Gates, and Dick Cheney, so if the GOP is going to contest pro-Russia appointments, it probably will be on other appointees.

Kissinger's endorsement in particular might end up flipping some democrats, so the prospect of blocking him aren't particularly good. I'd actually consider voting in favor were I in congress since, while his decisions as Secretary of State were heinous, I grudgingly acknowledge the importance of his contribution to the scholarly side of geopolitics and international relations.

edited 5th Jan '17 1:51:50 PM by CaptainCapsase

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#165400: Jan 5th 2017 at 1:46:16 PM

[up][up]A precedent for successfully challenging an electoral result at this stage in the game is always going to be a thorny thing to create. Remember how people were defending Trump saying he might not accept the results by pointing to Al Gore?

And, I mean, the reason this is even a thing is because probably neither party was all that careful about choosing electors. It's to imagine that next time, the GOP will be more careful than the Dems.


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