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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
No I mean the factions within the left who are being blamed, basically I'm seeing a pattern of centrist Democrat supporters blaming the left and far-left (often conflating the two) and the left and far-left blaming the centre. I'm seeing those who already had distance for rural Democrat supporters in the Rust Belt (who are not Confederate nostalgic or religious extremists) blaming them and the ones who had distain for what they saw as Hollywood elites within the party blaming them.
People within the Democrats (well at least some here) seem to just be going "what part of the party did I hate before this election? They're the ones to blame for our loss and nobody else".
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI think 'the US election season is too goddamn long' is a fairly uncontroversial view at this point. I blame the circus that is the primaries. Like, up here parties leaders are chosen fairly quietly between elections, so there's none of that nonsense where the most popular members of each party spend months attacking each other only to suddenly start acting like none of what they said mattered a few weeks later.
@That article: What nonsense is this? Stein has been really up front about saying the recount is crowdfunded, going as far as to put a donation limit in place so that no millionaires can fund the entire thing.
Plus, I mean, if the Clinton campaign was willing to put that much cash on line for the recount, surely they would've just, y'know, done it themselves rather than using Stein as a front. Because why even bother with that? All that does is ensure they won't be getting the money back.
edited 28th Nov '16 4:05:39 PM by Gilphon
The American Dream (TM) is danger and disease wrapped in darkness and silence. Or more specifically, it's a fucking crock, in part because even if everyone can grow up to be President, (which itself is a big fat lie for a for a number of reasons,) there's still the question of if everyone should. (Which I think Trump has given us the rather disappointing answer to.) And if you want more proof as to how The American Dream (TM) is the most blatant misnomer in history, just read anything by Arthur Miller. Death Of A Salesman should be required reading in all school districts everwhere.
edited 28th Nov '16 4:22:19 PM by kkhohoho
The main problem with "The American Dream" is that it presumes (or at least, many people seem to presume) that everyone starts off on the same footing when it comes to achieving the dream, and that even if it wasn't the case, if you work hard enough you'll eventually overcome the barriers and become truly great.
It's a crock. Individually non-privileged people might be able to achieve success, but in aggregate they have far less opportunities and have to work much harder, which is not a fair system. And many people work hard all their lives but struggle to get anywhere. America will hardly go anywhere in terms of true justice until more people begin accepting this fact.
I think the The American Dream has a lot to recommend it if people understand what it means. A promise to live up and an ideal to work towards. What Dr. King says in the quote page I linked here..."I still have a dream, a dream deeply rooted in the American dream – one day this nation will rise up and live up to its creed, "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal."
I also love this exchange from Gore Vidal's Burr (which is sadly being displaced by broadway despite being more accurate to history):
Colonel Burr You would prefer to live under the British crown?
Hamilton: Of course not! But there is something wrong here. I sense it everywhere. Don’t you?
Colonel Burr: I sense nothing more than the ordinary busy-ness of men wanting to make a place for themselves. Some are simply busier than others, and so will take the higher ground. But it is no different here from what it is in London or what it was in Caesar’s Rome.
Hamilton: There is more to it than that, Burr. But then I have always thought we might be able to make something unique in this place.
Colonel Burr: Our uniqueness is only geographical.
Hamilton: No, it is moral. That is the secret to all greatness.
Colonel Burr: Are great souls ever moral?
Hamilton: They are nothing else!
The American Dream as it's usually understood is probably America's original sin. When the "dream" of the nation and its citizenry isn't equality and liberty under a just government, but simply towards the acquisition of more material goods, of course we'll end up as a sclerotic, greedy, and fundamentally ignorant society — it was in our DNA as a civilization all along.
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edited 28th Nov '16 4:24:24 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."Agreed, I'm noticing the same thing.
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVWell, if any particular Democrat did not vote for Hillary, either by voting third-party or staying home, they do share in the blame for the election outcome. I thought that was so obvious as to be not worth stating. The reasons why may vary, of course — if they were prevented from voting due to Republican shenanigans, then the blame devolves onto those. If they signed on to the "she's corrupt/a liar/a warmonger" narrative, then they share in the blind ignorance that fostered those memes.
If they genuinely disagree with her policy statements and agenda, then one honestly has to wonder what party they actually belong to.
edited 28th Nov '16 5:01:35 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"So lately I've been thinking, (A dangerous pastime/I know...) and I've really gotten an itch to read up on my country's history. The sad truth is that about all I really know about America is 'Colonists happened, Revolutionary War happened, Founding Fathers Ben Franklin John Addams Hamilton Seventeen Seventy Six something something, Andrew Jackson, Lincoln, Civil War happened, slavery's abolished, Jim Crow, Trail of Tears, Great Depression, WWII, Civil Rights Movement, Cold War, Hippies, Nixon, Bush, Obama, Donald Trump.' Give or take a few odds and ends and that's about it. I know the general outline of it all, sure, but I'd really like to get into the nitty gritty. The trouble is, I'm not really sure where to start. Anyone have any ideas?
edited 28th Nov '16 5:00:18 PM by kkhohoho
Try A People's History of the United States, for an entire book of American history that is almost never taught in high school curricula.
edited 28th Nov '16 5:04:00 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."![]()
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I'm not exactly an authority on this particular subject but I've gotten the impression that a lot of people who would vote Democrat are just as susceptible to truthiness and feelings over actual facts and reasonable decisions.
This is anecdotal but almost the younger people I'm in touch with on your side of the pond have a much more positive opinion of Sanders than they do of Clinton, and only begrudgingly supported Clinton or refused to vote because she didn't "strike a chord" with them.
I would go so far as to say that I doubt they looked very closely at either person's platform. They just have an antipathy towards Clinton and that was that.
edited 28th Nov '16 5:04:51 PM by Draghinazzo
And that's the place where the media has to be blamed, for focusing on the "scandals" at the expense of the issues. But if you're going to be a participant in the political process and not just a sheep following the herd, you need to learn how to educate yourself beyond what you see on CNN or on your Facebook feed. The media seem chastized now, but who knows if it'll result in any tangible efforts to change their narrative come 2018 or 2020.
Is CNN devoting hours of reporting time talking about Trump's many scandals, his business failures, his conflicts of interest, his promotion of white supremacists and uber-elite capitalist insiders to his staff? "Man of the people"... yeah, right.
edited 28th Nov '16 5:09:45 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I wouldn't recommend Howard Zinn's book.. It's kind of a "little guy" book and that kind of Capraesque sentiment is never good on either the Right or the Left. .
I recommend Eric Foner's Give Me Liberty...and also James Mcpherson's Battle Cry for Freedom which is the best single volume book on the American Civil War. I also recommend fiction, chiefly Gore Vidal's Burr which is the best novel about the Founders generation and far superior to that musical in historical fidelity.
Also, try David McCullough's biography of John Adams, the inspiration for the HBO miniseries of the same name. It's pretty heavy on the American Revolution, naturally, but given its focus on Adams, more attention is given to the diplomacy, politics, and philosophy that underpinned it, rather than battles. It also covers the immediate post-war America, which is decidedly obscure.
I also second the recommendation of Eric Foner's work.
edited 28th Nov '16 5:21:11 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

We'll talk about "any kid" when there's a poor president.
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV