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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#159026: Nov 28th 2016 at 9:46:46 AM

The problem is that we taught people that "bigotry is bad, m'kay?" without properly defining what bigotry actually is.

When I was in school, they showed us a short film made by Bill Cosby in 1971, in which he portrayed a bigot. This character hated absolutely everybody: blacks, Jews, Irish, Italians, liberals, conservatives, old people, kids, women, even other bigots.

EDIT: found it.

edited 28th Nov '16 9:56:48 AM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#159027: Nov 28th 2016 at 9:47:31 AM

Texan elector resigns because he couldn't bring himself to vote for Trump or become a faithless elector {Talking Points Memo}.

Maybe some other electors will go faithless?

edited 28th Nov '16 9:47:59 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#159028: Nov 28th 2016 at 9:49:23 AM

So, how does one even become an elector? Are they all bureaucrats?

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#159029: Nov 28th 2016 at 9:50:27 AM

[up][up]Way to let someone else make the hard decision.

edited 28th Nov '16 9:50:41 AM by Kayeka

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#159030: Nov 28th 2016 at 9:54:39 AM

@Krieger: At some point, someone's got to stop rebutting the rebuttals to the rebuttals to the rebuttals... Sanders is 'this is the song that never ends' of political threads. There was a lot of things I could have said in response that I chose not to say because this just needs to stop. The petty infighting over what might have beens and could have beens and should have beens, and all the bitterness and condescension that comes with it, is not a healthy environment for the left to consolidate a defensive stand against what has been the worst election in living memory (at least, in MY living memory).

@Crimson Zephyr: As usual, getting into the EC is one of those things that varies on a state-by-state basis. There's almost no real qualifications beyond sucking up to one of the two major political parties enough to get rewarded for it.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#159031: Nov 28th 2016 at 9:56:48 AM

@Julian Lapostat: These are simply smears. No, Bernie Sanders didn't engage in environmental racism by any definition of the word, didn't write an essay which says that rape is okay, there is no evidence that there even is a Sandinista video (and it is likely, as this article points out, that Eichenwald's 'opposition research file' never existed), etc.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#159032: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:03:13 AM

At some point, someone's got to stop rebutting the rebuttals to the rebuttals to the rebuttals... Sanders is 'this is the song that never ends' of political threads. There was a lot of things I could have said in response that I chose not to say because this just needs to stop. The petty infighting over what might have beens and could have beens and should have beens, and all the bitterness and condescension that comes with it, is not a healthy environment for the left to consolidate a defensive stand against what has been the worst election in living memory (at least, in MY living memory).

Fact is letting people agree-to-disagree on issues has had a bad history in America. It led to Jim Crow where Republicans decided that Reconstruction was a bad idea and threw their constituency under the bus.

Pretending that Hillary wasn't a victim of Mccartyhism, of misogyny and that Sanders could have beaten her but for the evil DNC and their neoliberal embrace of "identity politics" has harmful consequences for the people who now fear they are going to be thrown under the bus because of the tender butthurt of the racist working class.

You can only fight back with the truth, and its important you establish clarity on that. Otherwise, there will be problems later on.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#159033: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:18:33 AM

Yeah, okay, this narrative that all Sanders supporters want to do is embrace white nationalists and throw all minorities under the bus has got to stop. People are allowed to have slightly different political priorities or different preferences in campaigning without being called delusional, racist anti-fact ideologues.

The actual politicians have moved on and are having adult conversations like adults. They know their best hope of winning the next cycle is with the support of BOTH factions on the left, full stop. I don't know why their fans bickering on internet forums can't follow their example.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159034: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:29:24 AM

[up][up] Any number of Trump's scandals should have ended him, most of them were far worse than anything Clinton or Sanders was associated with. So we have to ask ourselves, what was it that made him scandal proof. My own hypothesis is that his vastly superior social media operation was a big part of it, and his "outsider" appeal which caused every accusation leveled against him to be dismissed as a smear by the establishment trying to hold him back, and simply based on how Sanders versus Clinton are regarded in the general online world even now, Sanders definitely had the better social media operation of the two. As for the outsider component, yes you can point out that Sanders isn't really an outsider in any meaningful sense of the word, but neither was Trump.

The whole dynamic of this election was one that allowed for some fairly drastic change, and based on how we went from Obama to Trump with an electorate that's essentially composed of the same people, I'd say there's reason to believe the electorate didn't really care about the direction of that change as much as the fact that the candidate represented a significant departure from the status quo. Issues barely even mattered this election, considered how little coverage they got compared to the endless wave of scandals.

Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#159035: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:30:36 AM

I can imagine Trump in his first 100 days: "My first bigly, yuug act in office is gonna be to imbolish gremmer and smart-guy facts."

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#159036: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:34:13 AM

If we're not already living the film Idiocracy, we're fast approaching it.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159037: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:35:28 AM

[up] Except some of the idiots were still self-aware enough to want the one guy who was less of an idiot to make the decisions.

What's happening now is arguably the opposite. People who really should have known better somehow convinced themselves to vote an idiot into power. Because FEELINGS.

edited 28th Nov '16 10:37:40 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#159038: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:44:08 AM

Any number of Trump's scandals should have ended him, most of them were far worse than anything Clinton or Sanders was associated with. So we have to ask ourselves, what was it that made him scandal proof.

He was not a politician. He was a businessman billionaire playboy TV Star, of course he's a sleazy, skeevy, pervert. It's more scandalous for Bill Cosby, Mr. Pound Cake and hectoring educational reformer who mocks a sports-scholarship kid, to be exposed than a guy who was openly a weasel for decades. It's more of a scandal for Hillary Clinton and Democrats to be part of the same corporate machinery they are trying to reform. And its more of "a scandal" for Bernie Sanders, self-proclaimed socialist, to be the by-the-numbers New Dealer that he actually is and actually be a mainstream democrat in matters of supporting Israel, and the drone program.

The Left's obsession with hypocrisy and authenticity (the whole The Man Is Sticking It to the Man, when historically that has always been how change has happened as seen in the Real Life section there) became a tool for the Right, who said that Trump is a honest hypocrite. I personally blame George Orwell a delusional fanatic who made much of liberal piety by attacking leftists while being himself a liar, a propagandist and a nasty individual...he's the left-wing Ayn Rand.

The whole dynamic of this election was one that allowed for some fairly drastic change, and based on how we went from Obama to Trump with an electorate that's essentially composed of the same people,

That's absurd. The electorate that voted in Obama was "the obama coalition" and it was heavily successful in mobilizing young voters, minorities, undecided and stay-at-home. Just because some of them were racist white working class doesn't make it remotely the same electorate. I mean there was a big joke in 2008 about how Obama was getting "the racist vote".

Furthermore John Mccain and Mitt Romney deserve their prize for basic decency for not engaging and activating racist rhetoric and sentiments against Obama. Their elections were issues-based, economics based and was about the policies, whereas Trump's elections was racist from Day 1. I mean he started the whole Birther thing, that was his ticket to a political platform. His big success was that he made that uppity President show his birth certificate...and now he made that uppity President pay for making fun of him at that White House Correspondent's Dinner.

The people who voted Trump in are A) Racist, B) People who don't care that he was racist and so racist enablers and default racists, C) Didn't care one bit about actual economics.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159039: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:46:25 AM

[up] By the electorate I mean the set of people who were eligible to vote was more or less the same. The same people didn't turn up, obviously, but the people who voted in Obama in 2012 are by and large still out there.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#159040: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:47:49 AM

"Why is the stock market so excited for President Trump?" I'm glad I read this, because I was scratching my head why the stock market has reached record highs after the insane plummet on 11/9. And of course, it doesn't make me very optimistic that the economy will improve for the middle class despite what the stock market says.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159041: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:50:34 AM

Things are not going to get better for the middle class. The only people who will benefit economically are the people who are already very well off.

America's middle class is fucked. sad

edited 28th Nov '16 10:51:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159042: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:52:59 AM

[up] It was already fucked under Clinton, because the Beltway didn't even recognize that there was a problem in that regard until Trump pulled the rug out from under them, among many other things the Washginton group-think was blind to. It would have happened more gradually since there wouldn't be many deliberate attempts to dismantle the middle class as there will be under Trump, but letting current trends continue would lead to the same end result.

edited 28th Nov '16 10:54:46 AM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159043: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:56:05 AM

[up] TBF, HRC had a plan in place for retraining in different fields and such since she acknowledged that the coal industry's job opportunities were dwindling. Problem is, her campaign didn't do enough to actually let the voters know about their plan. They overestimated their "Blue Wall".

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159044: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:57:10 AM

[up] These people aren't interested in retraining, in part since they were promised the same thing when NAFTA was being signed, and are thus jaded against such claims. Claiming to be able to "bring back" manufacturing jobs and then going ahead with retraining programs in office, with an emphasis on technical work in the sort of automated manufacturing that's increasingly going to be cropping up in the US would be the way to go.

edited 28th Nov '16 10:58:56 AM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159045: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:59:18 AM

[up] So they voted for the talking shitbag who pretended to give a shit, talked shit about NAFTA, and made bullshit promises about bringing back coal jobs.

edited 28th Nov '16 11:00:10 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#159046: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:59:49 AM

"America's middle class is fucked."

America's middle class (the suburban conservative Little Americans) helped bring Trump to power. They fucked themselves.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#159047: Nov 28th 2016 at 10:59:56 AM

[up][up] Precisely.

[up] And do you intend to bring some sort of collective punishment against the voting bloc for that transgression? If not, there's no point in heaping collective blame upon particular groups of people.

edited 28th Nov '16 11:01:50 AM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#159048: Nov 28th 2016 at 11:01:42 AM

[up][up] Hopefully they will at least blame the right people for their metaphorical sore asses. tongue If they end up voting for a second round...

edited 28th Nov '16 11:03:14 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#159049: Nov 28th 2016 at 11:02:24 AM

They sure as hell are into collective punishment aren't they?

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#159050: Nov 28th 2016 at 11:04:49 AM

"And do you intend to bring some sort of collective punishment against the voting bloc for that transgression?"

I think what Trump will do to them is punishment enough.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

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