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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#158776: Nov 26th 2016 at 9:20:52 PM

[up][up]Pretty much the case here too. The doublethink is strong.

Oh really when?
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158777: Nov 26th 2016 at 9:26:11 PM

@Stormtroper Well they don't legally own it, but they still have control over it. The effect is the same — they have authority over the workers, and extract profit from their labor.

@TobiasDrake

At the same time, they oppose basic income because it violates their philosophy that everyone should be responsible for his or herself. Automation does not herald the arrival of a post-capitalist society in their eyes.
There's nothing anti-capitalist about UBI. On the contrary, its purpose is arguably to save capitalism from itself.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158778: Nov 26th 2016 at 9:28:06 PM

[up] There may be a trace of Don't You Dare Pity Me! behind some people not wanting UBI even if it would really help them.

Disgusted, but not surprised
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#158779: Nov 26th 2016 at 9:30:05 PM

[up][up]

hahahaha - too many IDIOTS think that basic income will just make people slackers.

Try to make them focus on the survival aspects, but no.... they focus on the slackers thing.

edited 26th Nov '16 9:30:26 PM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#158780: Nov 26th 2016 at 9:31:50 PM

@Stormtroper Well they don't legally own it, but they still have control over it. The effect is the same — they have authority over the workers, and extract profit from their labor.

Hmmm... I suppose that's a good point.

Thanks.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#158781: Nov 26th 2016 at 9:34:06 PM

Yeah it's basically just a question of pride, combined with what I would imagine is leftover prejudice from anything remotely "socialist" regardless of its actual merit.

I want to point out that the whole "Protestant work ethic" thing isn't exactly uniquely Protestant. Not that it isn't a strongly embedded ideal in american society, but it's hard for me to imagine a "modern" country on Earth where you aren't expected to get a job to meaningfully contribute to your community. It's been such an enormous dogma and cornerstone of societal values for so long that getting people to actually take it seriously is going to be extremely difficult, to say the least.

The idea that you can find other ways to contribute to society and that getting a job is going to be tougher and tougher going forward anyways is gonna be an extremely bitter pill to swallow for a lot of people.

edited 26th Nov '16 9:34:50 PM by Draghinazzo

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#158782: Nov 26th 2016 at 9:39:38 PM

This involves the ongoing redefinition of "work," seen in the tensions between traditional labor and the more recent service economy.

Hell, it wasn't that long ago that my parents said "you can't make a living by playing video games," and look at what's happening now.

edited 26th Nov '16 9:40:40 PM by Eschaton

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#158783: Nov 26th 2016 at 10:00:17 PM

[up] Very ironically, if I keep in mind - drugs, junk food, porn, videogames - I worry less.

They're basically our version of Ancient Rome's "bread and circuses". (They'll hopefully keep civilization from collapsing until the alien invaders get here.)

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158784: Nov 26th 2016 at 10:13:50 PM

Wonder if we'll someday see a society where "buying things people make" becomes a job description unto itself. Like the Iskoort "Shopper" Guild from Animorphs.

Disgusted, but not surprised
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158785: Nov 26th 2016 at 10:20:02 PM

[up] I sure hope not. Consumerism is already disgusting enough.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158786: Nov 26th 2016 at 10:25:14 PM

The end result might look like what happened to humanity in WALL•E.

Disgusted, but not surprised
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158787: Nov 26th 2016 at 10:26:44 PM

I still refuse to believe that movie was apolitical.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#158788: Nov 26th 2016 at 10:41:57 PM

Wall E is too optimistic. Then again, these days - I think Black Mirror is too optimistic.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158789: Nov 26th 2016 at 10:47:09 PM

For me, two dystopias that hit way too close to home were Jennifer Government and Feed. I can't help worrying that capitalism is taking us in that direction.

edited 26th Nov '16 10:50:02 PM by henry42

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#158790: Nov 26th 2016 at 11:01:58 PM

[up] Read the summaries. Yep... dystopias are currently utopias for me.

Dystopias just look good when brain's insisting on anarchy and apocalypses.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158791: Nov 26th 2016 at 11:30:04 PM

I'm leaning towards a Deus Ex future myself.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#158792: Nov 26th 2016 at 11:37:37 PM

Reaction to PC culture and Trump: I'd emphasize the reaction to that. Every time a safe space shows up on some American college campus, or more appropriately, some entitled, rich WASP (dislike PC culture and are now offended on behalf of someone else? No consolation cookie for you) gets ejected from one for displaying a total lack of empathy, Breitbart, CNN, outraged newspaper columnists, Facebook "dank meme stashes" and South Park get a field day before the reason for such a safe space existing, like, say, the college police trying to eject minorities from college grounds for "not looking like students" or someone leaving a noose near a majority-black residential block, comes to light.

It's not that people cry wolf too much, it's that The Complainer Is Always Wrong was actively invoked, often by the wolves who didn't get a hint, the wolves who got a hint as to what was going on started projecting or denyingCase Study . And as they say, it is easier to spread a lie than to rebut it. There was no shortage of lies this election cycle.

3:56 onwards sums up my opinion of the bros who voted Trump. I'm not nearly as empathetic as he is to urban Trump supporters in the earlier part of the video, but that's just me.

[up]Black Ops 3 for me. I do not expect Panchaea to happen in any form with fucking climate change deniers in the White House.

edited 26th Nov '16 11:39:16 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#158793: Nov 27th 2016 at 12:04:38 AM

Safe spaces at college? The answer is clear:

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#158794: Nov 27th 2016 at 12:27:14 AM

The thing is the blurring and lack of nuance in discourse is that stuff like "safe spaces" and other genuine silliness (which they are guilty of, prohibition was backed by the US Left, we should remember) gets tumbled into making racism and antisemitism okay. This is just incredibly dangerous extremism and essentially a media discourse for someone with Borderline personality.

How is that our options are Safe Spaces or KKK having a Roman Triumph in North Carolina. Is that how desperate and insane US society has become. Can there be no middle-ground, is that how fragile US is.

And secondly, in the face of the dangerous and deadly reality, why are people making "Safe Spaces" a thing. At the rate things are going, America will be lucky to have any education systems in four years.

America's real curse is Anti-Intellectualism. Never has a cure been in greater need, and never has it been more scarce than the current climate.

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#158795: Nov 27th 2016 at 12:59:55 AM

Safe spaces only tend to be a problem for people that are not typically going to have their opinions challenged or be made uncomfortable on a moral or human level. When they finally do experience something like that, safe spaces for them suddenly becomes acceptable. See Trump's reaction to Hamilton's statement to Pence.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#158796: Nov 27th 2016 at 1:04:55 AM

Safe Spaces is uniquely American as a concept, I wonder if that has to do with the self-perception Americans have of themselves being good guys and so necessarily have to be protected from the harsh reality that is its history.

SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#158797: Nov 27th 2016 at 1:15:00 AM

Safe spaces are generally more for marginalized groups. As in letting people have a moment of peace where they're not treated with mistrust because of their religion or race, and are allowed to discuss how it makes them feel without being shamed. Watching television or going online still has the chance of people either watching their group being the butt of a cruel "joke" or being treated with hostile bigotry.

Trigger warnings are less a free pass from participating in class and more of a warning about content to give them a chance to prepare themselves.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#158798: Nov 27th 2016 at 1:34:21 AM

Anyway, safe spaces are not really a problem of any relevance. Now nowhere is safe. In my experience, marginalized groups rarely want "safe space" they want to share the same space as everyone. I can't speak for everyone or for all groups, but it's always been my sense that people want to be taken seriously and treated equally and you should try and do that.

Some of the PC stuff is genuinely irritating and annoying but I see that as garden variety internecine feuds and a failure of proper intellectual standards and nuance in public life and mass media.

I think the reasons for the election were mostly media failures...over-representing Trump, under-representing policy, ratings over content, "fake" news. I think Hillary's main mistake was that she undersold herself. She passed herself as the "normal" candidate over Trump and let herself be painted as the establishment when she was the one who has been the target of a Neo-Mccarthyite Smear Campaign since the Benghazi hearings which we now know weren't her fault, that she was questioned for hours without any meaningful information and much tax money wasted. Then there's the overblown nature of the email scandal. She didn't defend her primary victories over Sanders which she won fair and square and outvoted Sanders by a huge margin.

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#158799: Nov 27th 2016 at 2:03:23 AM

Figured I might post what this Imgurman has to say on the election.

He elaborates on reasons why those people voted Trump, so it might not be anything new, but I figured I can as well just give it for everybody's insight.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#158800: Nov 27th 2016 at 3:23:33 AM

Theoretically they're great things to have, but as I've observed firsthand plenty of people are willing to abuse it anyway, or even if they're not exploiting them out of cynical self-interest they're still denying themselves a proper education they could've handled in the name of not having their opinions challenged.


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