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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#158426: Nov 24th 2016 at 8:16:46 PM

Knowing how a lot of Republicans view the working class, it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#158427: Nov 24th 2016 at 8:43:27 PM

[up] The rich Republicans, not the poor ones. Especially considering that there are more not well off Republicans, compared to Democrats.

I'm noting to myself to be more-extra specific about which Republicans because.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#158428: Nov 24th 2016 at 9:04:12 PM

Yeah, should've made it more clear that I meant big Republican officials, as a large amount of their voterbase is said working class.

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#158429: Nov 24th 2016 at 9:22:07 PM

Happy thanksgiving!

What? What is this?
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#158430: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:13:34 PM

Unfortunately, the excuse of third-parties stealing the election from Clinton just doesn't work in this case. The ones we talk about are Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. In regards to Perot, he had the most successful third-party run since Teddy Roosevelt ran for the Bull Moose Party, and he was closer in political positions to George H. W. Bush, so it was feasible that Bush voters would have instead voted for Perot in massive numbers to give Bill Clinton the election. With Nader, both the electoral college and the votes in Florida were so close that Nader theoretically could have cost Gore the election since he was closer in political positions than Gore was and if Gore won Florida, he would have won the election.

So why didn't third-parties really affect this election? Three reasons. First, the third-party who won the most votes, Gary Johnson, is closer to the Republicans in ideology than to the Democrats. It was more than likely that people voting Johnson would have been protest votes against Trump, and not Clinton. Hell, Johnson was a Republican who became part of the Libertarian Party. He's certainly more of a Republican than Trump is.

Second is that Clinton would would've needed to flip multiple states to secure victory against Trump, not just a single state like Gore needed to in 2000. Compared to the last clean Republican win with Bush & Kerry, Clinton lost Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin as well as one of Maine's Electoral Votes, but won Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, and Virginia from Trump. The last Republican to win Michigan, Pennsylvania, and any of Maine's electoral votes was George H.W. Bush in 1988 who won all three states. However, Wisconsin is much more interesting since the last Republican to win it was Ronald Reagan in 1984 where he won everything but Minnesota and DC. These states should at least be as solidly blue as California is which also went red in 1988 for Bush, but Clinton lost them.

The third is that both Johnson and Stein ran as their respective third-parties' presidential candidates in 2012 against Obama and Romney. Against Obama and Romney, Johnson and Stein did absolutely miserably. They did better this time, not because they were uniquely appealing candidates like Ross Perot, but because Clinton and Trump were both seen as uniquely unappealing candidates.

All and all, it was a number of factors which cost Clinton the election. Mainly, it was successful marketing from the Republican Party against her, Comey's last minute October Surprise with the damn email issue, and her campaign just taking the Rust Belt's votes for granted. It was not however the fault of third-parties that cost Clinton the election.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158431: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:34:36 PM

I still think that it's pretty silly to protest and complain about a Trump win (like literally protesting on the streets) if you didn't vote for HRC. If you didn't do the one thing that could have contributed to stopping it from happening, or reduced his "mandate" by increasing the popular vote margin...

Disgusted, but not surprised
Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#158432: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:36:11 PM

With the GOP in charge of America and the tea party and even the alt-rights are gaining more influence in the government, I have a question: "What do you guys think will happen to education, especially history?

As an Asian, I live in culture that basically all about protecting our values (most of the time from the decadent west) and honoring our venerable ancestors, so, of course, we practice historical revisionism all the time. You don't want to give children a negative view of their own countries, right? We want them to believe that they live in a beautiful country and be proud of it, right?

One of the things that I admire from the west is their approach to history. I realize that there is no historical revisionism in the west isn't true, but at least whenever such thing happen or about to happen, there is a strong opposition to them. I also admire the fact that you can make fun of your own country in the west. If I try to do that here, I will become at least a social pariah.

Heck, I write as a hobby and my works aren't accepted until I tailored them to promote my country and culture. Basically, only works in the vein of my country is the center of the universe (i.e. nationalist's power fantasy) is accepted and sponsored. Nationalist a-holes. My country and the rest of Asia I guess aren't more stable than the west. We're just better at hiding it. Although, it's getting harder to do it now thanks to the easy access to internet and recording devices.

And I know at least some parts of the tea party and alt-rights want to re-interpret American historical record. It already happens in Arizona where they ban Mexican-American studies a few years ago and that's before Trump presidency. What do you think will happen in Trump presidency? It's disheartening if they get what they want.

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158433: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:38:13 PM

[up] Whatever happens, it's not going to be good.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#158434: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:44:53 PM

[up][up] If you don't mind me asking, Advarielle, where are you from?

Oh God! Natural light!
Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#158435: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:51:05 PM

[up] I live in Indonesia. So, it's easy to find out why I have issues with historical revisionism.

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#158436: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:05:13 PM

...I'm afraid I know very little about Indonesian history. Sorry.

Oh God! Natural light!
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#158437: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:07:56 PM

Expect a lot of white-washing in history subject. Science will be religionified, especially biological sciences.

Math will probably be safe. Also English. Nix on foreign languages.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#158438: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:10:38 PM

[up][up] Just google and watch Jagal: the act of killing and Senyap: the look of silence. And those two only cover one event in the history of my country. There are much more of those historical revisionism. They just don't have a movie or other easy to digest media yet. And it's unlikely they're going to have one. Just look for the subtitled version of those two movies. A little warning: those movies are really dark and heavy. Prepare yourself.

[up] That's what I'm afraid of. I hope that won't happen. Education is the key to brighter future, after all, but this is the GOP, so *sigh*

edited 24th Nov '16 11:13:19 PM by Advarielle

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#158439: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:13:50 PM

[up]Ugh, I wish historical revisionism wasn't a thing in the West. When I was at school here in the Netherlands, we spent way too little time on the shit we pulled in your country, especially the post-WWII stuff. Sure, there was something, and they definitely didn't show us as the good guys, but just not enough.

Maybe one or two pages that didn't even show up on the test.

edited 24th Nov '16 11:15:50 PM by Kayeka

Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#158440: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:31:08 PM

[up] The Netherlands are much better about the historical revisionism stuff than Indonesia or the rest of Asia for that matter. I'm not joking when I say that you can find a person here that is involved in the "purge" for the lack of a better word and go ask them what do you do for a living to find out about the "purge." For a more apt comparison for the westerners, it's like if you go to Germany long after the holocaust and find out that the Nazi where still in power.

The west isn't free from historical revisionism, but the east is plagued with it. Just look at China or Japan for another examples. And the most frightening thing is that most of the people here either accept it or don't give a damn about it.

The simple fact that at least more or less half of America don't support Trump and the nutjobs behind him is reassuring to a certain degree.

edited 24th Nov '16 11:38:44 PM by Advarielle

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158441: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:41:56 PM

At this point, the only way Trump's presidency won't be a total shitshow will be if he is paid a visit by the Spirits of Christmas Past, Present, and Yet-to-Come.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TropesForever God forbid women do anything from wait where is she Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
God forbid women do anything
#158442: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:52:54 PM

[up]I'm already planning my own version. I guess Strange Minds Think Alike?

thebeatles.com/careers
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#158443: Nov 25th 2016 at 12:04:06 AM

But he isn't Scrooge, he's Marley!

edited 25th Nov '16 12:05:18 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#158444: Nov 25th 2016 at 12:22:57 AM

Texas has already tried to get away with banning all mentions of slavery, and I'm aware white supremacists are responsible for why all mention of placage or other interracial marriages which used to take place in states like Louisiana got erased from US history textbooks. And of course there's those damn "evolution is just a theory" stickers in all biology textbooks in the south.

I went to school in Massachusetts where they made sure to teach about slavery and the Civil Rights movement in elementary school. Though it was kind of lopsided since we had to go through a semester of the same stuff every year, while events involving other ethnicities wouldn't get nearly as much focus unless you went for it with outside readings. And the actions of the Puritans and explorers like Columbus and de Soto were whitewashed pretty heavily. When I got to high school I took AP for my history and science courses so there was no way they could get away with not teaching that stuff in greater detail.

edited 25th Nov '16 12:32:08 AM by AlleyOop

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#158445: Nov 25th 2016 at 12:33:15 AM

[up] Hah... on evolution.

imho, recognizing and understanding evolution is our best bet against unfriendly bacteria, fungi, viruses, etc. so yeah... we're headed for a sicker future the more people deny evolution.

I suppose slowly being digested by things we can't see is less terrifying than the usual Eaten Alive scenario.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#158446: Nov 25th 2016 at 2:14:44 AM

There's also the whole "the South was brave and noble when they rose against the union in order to protect the practice of slavery" narrative that was encouraged by the Union in order to mend wounds during the Reconstruction, and then the South by now tend to ignore that last part in italics.

I remember an amusing video of Chris Rock going around South Carolina asking people what they thought the Confederate Flag stood for, and one woman saying it stood for 'family and pride'. Downplaying the part slavery had in the war is interesting from a factual standpoint, considering it is explicitly stated in print that the Southern States seceded to protect slavery.

edited 25th Nov '16 2:16:13 AM by GoldenKaos

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#158447: Nov 25th 2016 at 3:20:22 AM

from what I've seen you'd be hard pressed to get anyone to admit it though. The civil war was for States Rights*

  • (Do not mention that it was SPECIFICALLY about the states right to enslave black people)

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#158448: Nov 25th 2016 at 3:22:36 AM

The States' rights to do what then?

And if you read the articles of secession, they do actively state that Slavery was the key reason.

edited 25th Nov '16 3:23:02 AM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#158449: Nov 25th 2016 at 3:23:53 AM

no no, I am agreeing with you, but also saying that it's some kind of taboo among Patriotic Southerners that the war Wasn't Actually About Slaves

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#158450: Nov 25th 2016 at 3:25:13 AM

Texas, huh? That isn't surprising at all. In fact, I've been wondering why there is no news from them about the entire "safe education" stuff after the success of Arizona. So, that's what they have been doing along with the rest of the south. I guess George Santayana isn't popular there, huh?

You know with the way that those fundamentalists treat evolution, one might think that evolution murders their entire families or something like that.

I always find it ridiculous that the conservatives can somehow support both military and anti-intellectualism. They do realize that those high-tech weapons and devices can't be operated or researched by everyone or with willpower and prayers, right?

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.

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