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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158301: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:34:23 AM

[up][up] You'd think that...but Stein cozies up to Putin, a guy whose environmental policies are...not great. There's a reason Russian environmentalists can't stand Stein.

Stein doesn't quite get that other countries also contribute to climate change.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:35:06 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158302: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:34:41 AM

[up] x5 America's motives for intervening in foreign affairs are often no better than Russia's. Notice how our government claimed to be outraged over human rights abuses in Libya and Syria, but looked the other way when the same things happened in Yemen and Bahrain.

[up]

...Stein cozies up to Putin...
She doesn't. Please don't spread that lie.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:38:01 AM by henry42

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158303: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:38:28 AM

[up][up][up] There's a reason a lot of Wall Street brokers were cheering "Lock her up!" when the election results were called.

Just because she gave a few speeches behind closed doors to Goldman-Sachs does not make HRC an "ally" to Wall Street. She's just pragmatic enough to actually talk to them rather than immediately write them off as predatory and evil like Elizabeth Warren.

[up]

http://www.rferl.org/a/russian-environmentalists-criticize-us-green-party-stein-putin-support/27970782.html

And for the sake of balance, Stein's response:

http://www.jill2016.com/jill_stein_russian_environmentalists

edited 24th Nov '16 10:40:01 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#158304: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:40:24 AM

[up] I'm sorry? Didn't Wall Street explicitly back Clinton because Trump can possibly make The Great Depression look like a Saturday hangover?

henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158305: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:41:45 AM

[up][up]

She's just pragmatic enough to actually talk to them rather than immediately write them off as predatory and evil like Elizabeth Warren.
Why shouldn't she?

I swear, the Clinton campaign has turned "pragmatic" into a euphemism for "letting the Republicans get their way on everything."

edited 24th Nov '16 10:41:59 AM by henry42

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#158306: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:42:06 AM

To an extent. But mainly because there are gasp private citizens who work for bankers who have liberal political leanings.

Shocking concept I know.'

[up] Now, I'm sure you're trolling.

Because I refuse to believe you're that dense and disingenuous.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:43:14 AM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158307: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:42:39 AM

[up][up][up] Wall Street isn't a monolithic entity. It's a bunch of different people who don't always share the same views.

But yeah, the higher-ups of Wall Street, the big players, backed HRC over Trump because they're worried that an idiot like Trump will fuck up the global economy.

And they're right to be worried. He has threatened to start trade wars with Mexico and China. Even making those threats can impact the economy, let alone following through.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:45:03 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#158308: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:44:57 AM

Notice how our government claimed to be outraged over human rights abuses in Libya and Syria, but looked the other way when the same things happened in Yemen and Bahrain.

So what? America's humanitarian policy interests line up with political and economic interests. You've just stated a fact of the world like it's some damning condemnation. Still, you're comparing a party whose platform involves judicial use of U.S. diplomatic and military power to intervene in crises across the world in an attempt to maintain peace with:

  • A person who would abandon all foreign obligations and turn us into an isolationist nation.
  • A person who would turn us into General Ripper on the world stage.

As for the Greens, they got barely 1 percent of the national popular vote, which might as well have been a fart for all the good it did. Their foreign policy platform isn't that objectionable in and of itself but it's basically a lost cause.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:46:20 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158309: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:45:02 AM

The Democratic party has been cozying up with Wall St. ever since Obama first ran back in 2008. This is nothing new.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#158310: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:45:24 AM

Do you not think we should honor our agreements with the Baltics and our obligations in NATO and oppose the Russians?

And define Wall Street.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:45:45 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#158311: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:46:24 AM

I guess Dodd-Frank isn't a thing, as well.

>.>

New Survey coming this weekend!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#158312: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:47:31 AM

[up][up][up] Dodd-Frank would like to speak with you; it caused Wall Street to all but abandon the Democrats out of pique. Sure, they have too much power and influence, but if you think you can simply cut that off like a child refusing to eat their peas, you are dangerously naive. Any solution to our economic doldrums has to include Big Money, not pretend it doesn't exist.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:48:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158313: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:47:53 AM

Dodd Frank is a joke compared to the Glass-Steagall act.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:48:13 AM by henry42

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#158314: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:49:44 AM

I mean, while I don't find it constructive to blame third party voters, I do have to seriously question the mindset that takes even the briefest glance at Trump and thinks 'welp, it looks like this election is gonna be low-stakes enough that I can afford to cast a protest vote.'

Really, the only way I can wrap my head around it is if you're a normally Republican voter who's casting a protest vote against Trump.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#158315: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:49:50 AM

Glass-Steagall wouldn't have stopped the 2006-2008 financial crisis. Seriously, it's fetishized to an almost pathetic extent by certain parts of the left. It might have helped keep consumer banks insulated from the crash, but it wouldn't have done jack to stop the shadow banking that fed the bubble.

Anyway, you're badly missing the point that it was Republicans in Congress who, backed by their big money interests, staunchly opposed even the most basic efforts at reform. The idea that Obama could have unilaterally put all the bankers in jail and broken up their institutions is laughable.

Also...

Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999 by a Republican-controlled Congress who pushed for the passage of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill. Gramm-Leach-Bliley was named after its three sponsors, all of them Republicans: Congressmen Phil Gramm (R-Texas), Jim Leach (R-Iowa) and Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-Virginia)

(source)

It takes an incredible level of willful blindness to blame the Democrats for the current mess over Republicans, to the extent that you'd put Republicans in power as a means of revenge. "Take that, all you folks who tried to reform the system, even though it didn't go as far as we (or they) would have liked. We'll make damn sure the system gets as fucked up as possible so you are properly motivated next time."

edited 24th Nov '16 10:52:43 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#158316: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:50:06 AM

Dodd Frank is a joke compared to the Glass-Steagall act.

The strongest Wall Street crackdown in over three generations is...is a joke?

I can't.

New Survey coming this weekend!
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158317: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:53:47 AM

Anyway, you're badly missing the point that it was Republicans in Congress who, backed by their big money interests, staunchly opposed even the most basic efforts at reform.
There is some truth to that, but there were a lot of reforms Obama could have passed, but didn't, because he didn't want to.

edited 24th Nov '16 10:54:04 AM by henry42

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#158318: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:54:24 AM

Like?

Oh really when?
henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#158319: Nov 24th 2016 at 10:56:43 AM

[up] I can't name them all off the top of my head, but for starters, he never really went all-in for a public option during the healthcare debate.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#158320: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:00:00 AM

Public Option was killed by House Blue Dogs and Joe Lieberman which Obama had no control over.

Care to try again?

New Survey coming this weekend!
NOYB Since: Sep, 2009
#158321: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:03:19 AM

Please share this with everyone you know who would be interested!

First my stepsister shared with us a petition to abolish the Electoral College, and now even better: Petition for the Electoral College to Elect Hillary Clinton on December 19. This was linked on my professor, Nnedi Okorafor's, Twitter: https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

I hadn't known this, but there's no legal way of stopping Electoral College members from voting against the majority of their State. They just have to pay a small fine, which would be well worth it.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#158322: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:03:40 AM

He wanted that, but couldn't get the Blue Dogs (DINOs) in Congress to go along with it.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158323: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:07:16 AM

[up][up] While I definitely don't want Trump to be POTUS, an EC revolt is not going to happen. There won't be enough electors willing to go against the will of their states' voters.

And even IF it happened, that would just send the decision to the House. The GOP dominated House.

The only thing I can see coming out of this would be incentive to finally eliminate the EC. TBF, that's something I could support.

edited 24th Nov '16 11:07:37 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#158324: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:09:24 AM

Can the Congress choose any other candidate to be President in case of faithless electors, i.e Pence, Romney or whoever?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#158325: Nov 24th 2016 at 11:10:26 AM

[up] They could...if they were willing to risk the wrath of their voters.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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