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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#157677: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:32:24 PM

Newsweek: Meet Robert Mercer, the billionaire benefactor of Breitbart

edited 21st Nov '16 7:32:34 PM by FluffyMcChicken

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157678: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:33:07 PM

Yeah, but like, it's not fear-mongering anymore, or talking about what he might to. Now it's a thing that he literally just did.

This, by all rights, should matter about as much as it would've if it'd turn out that Obama really did fake his birth certificate.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157679: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:34:01 PM

[up] We're not talking about what he might do, we're talking about what he's said he'd do in office. Rule #1: Believe the autocrat.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#157680: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:36:48 PM

Thing is the US has a shortage of "journalists of serious caliber", remember in the end cable news love Trump, they will run every You Tube address in full with no commentary, it's good for ratings and come 2020 they will fight their hardest to protect Trump and make the election a close run thing.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157681: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:38:04 PM

So I did a little bit of math, which might be incorrect, but:

Over the four years Donald might be president, assuming he stays an average of 3 days a week in NYC, it would cost the city something in the ballpark of over 600 million dollars.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#157682: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:38:37 PM

MSNBC so far isn't content to let things run without commentary. Although sometimes that is in fact the best way to get a point across.We're assuming that Trump is capable of cowing every media person out there, too. Which I don't think is really possible.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:38:58 PM by AceofSpades

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#157683: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:43:39 PM

And even the more spineless outlets will run with the work of those who have a spine, especially if it's explosive enough to drive ratings.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:44:25 PM by Elle

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#157684: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:44:02 PM

Depends on how many billionaires are willing to cow.

Most media companies are backed by billionaires these days, including the newspapers.

So basically it depends on how much they're willing to let him run rampant.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#157685: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:48:10 PM

Well for one, Jeff Bezos, who owns the Washington Post company, has the empire that is Amazon behind him and Amazon has become the framework on which a lot of other businesses run between their cloud services and their warehousing/fulfillment services.. Good luck attacking that without a ton of collateral damage.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:48:27 PM by Elle

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#157686: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:52:26 PM

"... Introducing Trumpazon..."

Ikiniks nor there from neither here Since: Jan, 2012
nor there
#157687: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:52:41 PM

So, as someone living rather close to DC, and I've been around this thread periodically, I'd like to put some of my thoughts out. I'm not well informed on politics, nor am I able to participate in the current politics due to circumstances. But here it goes:

What I think about the political climate is this: I think that things are changing really fast on a social front, and it's affecting the economy in a significant way. The Republicans know this, and are scared of it, but some were willing to try to work things out. But the ones that are really scared of and unwilling to work it out with this kind of change are really opposed to it. And the ones that were willing to work things out don't like what the unwilling had done and had allowed to happen, so this will cause friction for them. The Democrats are for this faster change, but they know that there are people that can't/won't work with that change, and some are willing to hear them out to an extent. But the ones that are really for that change are pushing for it at the expense of acknowledging those wary of the fast changes. And the ones willing to hear out their ideological opponents are dismayed by the antagonism displayed by those pushing really hard for the faster change, so this will cause for them.

The Republicans are in control of all 3 branches, so this may stymie the friction, but some of them may start to have second thoughts about what their party is doing and going to do. It seems their supporters are unified in their ideas, but unity is grounds for a clearer view of internal differences, so things may happen. The Democrats just lost a presidential election to someone they really didn't to be in any position of power, and are trying to unify in a significant way. Their supporters have been divided over their chosen candidates, but that's past now so they have to really get it together.

It seems to me that things are blending together into their stereotypes: the Republicans as socially disruptive ultra-conservatives and the Democrats as internally-argumentative to the point of ineffectiveness. I don't buy into these applying to the parties as a whole, but a lot of the people part of these parties —and many who aren't— are really starting to fit these images, and these people are loud.

I didn't like Trump and never supported him for reasons that were everywhere this past half-year. I'm very worried about the people he's surrounding himself with. I didn't know about Sanders before this whole thing, but I've learned enough for me to not support him. So that means I supported Clinton, because I've heard enough about her —scandals, actions, accomplishments, and others— and I think she would have been the best option.

I'll miss Obama and Biden.

I think I should try to do what's right even when it's hard to do so. These are my thoughts. They are half-baked but they're what I can articulate carefully. And civilly. This may be the only post I make here for a while. Thanks for reading for those who took the time to so.

but maybe somewhere
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#157688: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:06:55 PM

My prediction is that his presidency ends up similar to that of Ulysses Grant

Saw this and needed to respond—say what you will about Grant and the corruption in his administration, the man destroyed the Klan, tried for a peace policy with the Sioux, Comanche, Cheyenne, Kiowa, et al, and did his damndest to bring Lincoln's version of Reconstruction to the South. He was a better president and a better person than Trump could ever hope to be, and while we tend to focus a lot on the problems of his terms in office, the fact is that Grant still likely left the country a better place than he found it.

TenguSkunkworks from Thailand Since: Nov, 2016
#157689: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:08:58 PM

What I am about to say will be controversial, so please forgive me if I offend anyone here. That is not my intention. I do not support PEOTUS Trump, and do not agree with his political views.

I have been following this thread for the last few days, and must confess some of what has been posted here is very worrying. More than a few of the posts here appear to advocate support for violent street protests, elector mediated interference with the democratic process, and even direct violence to the elected candidate.

America has always advocated democracy is sacrosanct. I personally agree with this. Here in Thailand the people have been electing a series of corrupt populist leaders for the past two decades now. I personally always voted against them, but have always been one of the first to speak in their defence once the military inevitably mutinies and launches a coup. I have always done so because, corrupt as these elected populists are, they nevertheless have the electoral mandate.

Most people in my economic and social circles support the current unelected government. I find it alarming that a lot of the arguments used by pro-junta Thais are being replicated here, basically that those who voted in opposition to them did so because they are uneducated, illiberal, backwards, and poor. This is interesting because the last time two times these populists were ousted, the American political left has always been the first to (in my views very rightly) condemn the coups and their supporters, and that the democratically elected mandate should be respected. Does this no longer apply now that a populist has been elected in the US?

Do not be mistaken. The world has always viewed America as the archetypal democracy to be emulated. If the American left does not accept the results of the electoral mandate, this will be a most severe blow to democracy. The educated, prosperous (typically right winged) minority in fledgling democracies worldwide will view this as a signal that they can remove elected leaders simply because they have been chosen by the (now apparently illegitimate) voice of the less educated majority.

Sure, Mr Trump is a f%&@ing arsehole. That being said, isn’t giving the fairly elected candidate we don’t like and didn’t vote for a fair chance the most fundamental tenets of democracy? Ms Clinton and President Obama has been clear in their support of this position since the first day of the announcement of the election results, then again neither Ms Clinton nor President Obama are myopic hypocrites.

Mr Trump will not kill democracy. His election shows a dark side of American society, that is true, but nevertheless it is part of the democratic process. If anything is going to kill of democratic progress on a global scale, it would be because we, the left, think democracy is so fragile it cannot survive a single bad candidate.

PS I just realised how long my post has become. I do humbly apologise for the doorstopper-scale rant, I started typing and did not realise how long it became till I reviewed it after posting.

edited 21st Nov '16 8:09:59 PM by TenguSkunkworks

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157690: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:12:56 PM

[up]We gave Trump a chance. And so far, he's fucking blown it.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157691: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:16:14 PM

We've got the alt right and its leader heiling Trump in DC and asking for ethnic cleansing of the country and that America only belongs to them.

edited 21st Nov '16 8:19:46 PM by MadSkillz

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#157692: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:18:39 PM

He hasn't even assumed the office yet, and won't be able to for another two months. And he's already doing horrifying stuff that will only get worse once he's got the executive pen in his hand.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157693: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:20:16 PM

[up][up][up][up] One of the reasons the posts here have been so pessimistic lately is precisely because we gave Trump a chance. And in the past weeks, he has done nothing to reassure us that his administration will not be a total clusterfuck.

edited 21st Nov '16 8:20:36 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157694: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:21:15 PM

Remember guys, Steve Bannon, the leader of Breitbart, called his news site a platform of the alt right.

And there we have the leader of the alt right heiling Trump.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157695: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:22:05 PM

Ms Clinton and President Obama has been clear in their support of this position since the first day of the announcement of the election results, then again neither Ms Clinton nor President Obama are myopic hypocrites.

They said that on day 1.

I don't think any of them still reasonably believes that Trump deserves a chance to govern anything. He's appointed white supremacists into positions of power, is trying to bully the media because they said mean things about him, has shown he gives no regard for the security protocols of his office, and is costing the city of New York millions of dollars because he's a petulant child who wants to have his way.

He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Mr Trump will not kill democracy. His election shows a dark side of American society, that is true, but nevertheless it is part of the democratic process. If anything is going to kill of democratic progress on a global scale, it would be because we, the left, think democracy is so fragile it cannot survive a single bad candidate.

Unfortunately, the key part you are missing here is that democracy IS fragile, and especially in this climate.

Many countries in the world have already fallen into a regime many call an "illiberal democracy", where there are democratic PRETENSES but where a state employs appeals to human greed, fear and love for one's family to rig all systems to benefit them, including businesses and the media, all under the control of what is essentially a dictator. Russia and China suppress journalism that criticizes them and even have begun censoring the internet, and the former at least employs protectionist measures against american companies to benefit its homegrown businesses.

Mr Trump has shown all pretenses of being very much the same, given that he idolizes Vladimir Putin, who has turned Russia into the very same regime I was just talking about.

Make no mistake, democracy in America is in very real danger right now. It's easy to accuse people of being alarmist, but nothing about this election is normal, and for too long people have not taken Trump seriously. We can't afford to not take what he said at face value.

With that said, yes any calls that inflict violence and other extreme measures are not something we should be humoring, and the moderation on the site in general has been trying to curb the worst of that.

It isn't that liberals in America are not accepting the results of the election, per se. What the non-violent protests are showing is that yes, Trump may be president, but they do not condone his bigoted behavior or what he represents.

edited 21st Nov '16 8:24:46 PM by Draghinazzo

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157696: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:23:32 PM

A thing that needs to be taken into account is that Trump lost the popular vote by a really wide margin.

Although that doesn't change the fact that the system decided he was the winner based on rules everybody knew going into this, it very much should remain an important part of the narrative. Because he wasn't chosen by the will of the people. He was chosen by a failure of the system.

Now, of course, that's still no reason to resort to extreme measures like civil wars or military coups to get rid of him. That should go without saying. But that doesn't mean we can't do whatever we can within the system to stop him from doing damage.

henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#157697: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:26:05 PM

@TenguSkunkworks

The world has always viewed America as the archetypal democracy to be emulated.
Well, maybe they shouldn't. I understand that the situation in Thailand is a lot worse than it is in America, but there are plenty of other countries that actually DO have their shit together.

edited 21st Nov '16 8:26:30 PM by henry42

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157698: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:27:03 PM

[up][up] Anyone else find Trump's tweet whining over his widening popular vote loss hilarious?

edited 21st Nov '16 8:27:23 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157699: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:29:12 PM

Speaking of which, part of the problem with Trump being elected is not only the precedent it sets for America, but the rest of the world.

With the US having such an elephantine influence on global affairs, the fact that a racist, misogynistic, bufoonish crypto-fascist has gained the presidency is going to embolden a lot of would-be strongmen worldwide.

My own country (Brazil) is probably going to be even worse than the US in two years. Although we may have elected our own Trump even if Clinton won, the fact that Trump won has no raised the morale of the blackshirts down here.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157700: Nov 21st 2016 at 8:30:53 PM

I'm torn on Trump's twitter. On the one hand, he keeps using it to say stuff that no president-elect should say, thus damaging the credibility of the office. On the other, not letting him use it for the final weeks of the campaign was one of the wisest things his managers did.


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