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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#157651: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:01:21 PM

Bannon is nothing like Lenin. What Lenin did turned into a disaster, but the man himself genuinely believed in his cause. And the thing about communism is that it isn't a bad goal. He was just way too early, and he had a truly awful successor.

Lenin wanted to tear down the system to replace it with a better one, and he even had a plan to do that with. Bannon just wants to see the world blow up and know that he did it.

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157652: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:01:36 PM

What i miss?

What? What is this?
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#157653: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:02:23 PM

Considering how Trump managed to rip some of the rhetoric in The Communist Manifesto (regarding global capitalism), I still find it amusing that the Republicans are starting to get yanked around by a couple of reactionary populists.

I'll be considerably less amused once the nationalism kicks in.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:02:46 PM by Eschaton

henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#157654: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:03:58 PM

@kkhohoho Well, they do say that The Simpsons can predict the future...
Seriously though, either he was being rhetorical, or he has no goddamn clue what it means.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:05:45 PM by henry42

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157655: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:05:08 PM

So... that thing brought up a few pages back where Trump called in a bunch of reporters and then just yelled at them for criticizing him instead of giving them press credentials.

Can he actually do that? Just completely shut out news sources that aren't willing to become his propaganda machines? Can they not go 'hey, Supreme Court, this is some super 1st Amendment violating bullshit'?

Because if he can just do that, and ensure that the only first hand information that comes out is from sources he controls, then wow we need to be focusing more on what just happened, because he officially crossed the line from 'looks like he could turn out to be fascist' to 'confirmed to be a total fascist who's already corrupting the country'.

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157656: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:06:12 PM

The simpsons does predict everything that comes true.

What? What is this?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157657: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:07:48 PM

[up][up]Apparently he can deny them access to what's going on in the White House if they aren't going to report favorably, thusly making reputable news sources have to rely on second-hand information from Fox News or Breitbart.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#157658: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:08:33 PM

@Gilphon: Even if it is a huge violation of the concept of free press (which it may well be), I have no idea how to follow up on it. There have been so many things done already by this administration that the only sane response to has been 'w-wait, but you can't DO that!' and the response is for them to make eye contact and then keep doing it.

^Okay, he CAN do that, but is he ALLOWED to?

edited 21st Nov '16 7:10:19 PM by RedSavant

It's been fun.
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#157659: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:09:58 PM

The simpsons does predict everything that comes true.
So when does Trump come out with initiatives that result in a generation of super-criminals that don't need sleep?

edited 21st Nov '16 7:10:33 PM by PotatoesRock

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#157660: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:10:06 PM

"Access" isn't covered by the 1st Amendment. It is bad for public relations but if that youtube address becomes a pattern, it's possible he could bypass the press altogether.

It only becomes a 1st Amendment issue when the government actively tries to stop the press from investigating/publishing.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:11:16 PM by Elle

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157661: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:13:03 PM

And they really can't get the Supreme Court to tell him to knock it off or anything like that?

Because goddamn fucking hell, why are we talking about Bannon while this is happening?

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157662: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:13:46 PM

[up][up] I would actually count on YT address becoming a regular thing. It is exactly the kind of thing for Trump to do, to avoid having to rely on the "big establishment" and simply use the popular venues like twitter or YT to give his message directly to his base.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:14:01 PM by Draghinazzo

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#157663: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:14:18 PM

If Trump starts ignoring the media, they are going to have a field day with him the moment his policies go south. Once they see an opening, boom. He's acting like former Canadian PM Stephen Harper (ignore the media and be as insular as possible 95% of the time), but American news media is far more assertive than their northern counterparts.

Granted, unlike Harper, Trump knows how to use social media and unconventional sources.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157664: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:18:27 PM

Something I realized is that the YT address thing is mostly just relevant as far as the alt-right goes, in terms of reaching his base. The steel mill workers and rural voters aren't really gonna have convenient access to a YT video.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#157665: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:18:29 PM

"Because goddamn fucking hell, why are we talking about Bannon while this is happening?"

Gish Gallop of bullshit. We won't have a single minute of peace to stand and address one violation or diplomatic fuckup or bald-faced lie or outright hatred for the next four years. He will never, ever stop piling shit onto shit, while we all slowly drown in it.

It's been fun.
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#157666: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:19:59 PM
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157667: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:21:34 PM

@Rational: Trump is also very good at manipulating the media. He had most of the cable networks eating out of the palm of his hand throughout the election because of the ratings he generated. Beyond that, trust in the media as an institution is extremely low, with about 35% of the populace express some or significant trust in the media.

Social media means that Trump can flat out bypass the press when he feels the need to, making access, particularly exclusive access all the more important.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:22:33 PM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#157668: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:22:16 PM

I'm gonna talk about video game journalism for a sec.That's a very access focued industry; publishers and their marketing departments try to cultivate good relations with press outlets and hand out exclusives and behind the scenes interviews based on that relationship. Sometimes publishers will try to limit access in order to control the message for whatever reason...maybe a game has problems, maybe they want to slightly incentivize a good review score, whatever.

It doesn't work. The press when they get caught out is uniformly negative, outlets that have been denied backstage access i.e. review copies can get their hands on the game and review it anyway and people have gotten wise to marketing BS after being burned.

As long as there are journalists who give a damn and are willing to put in the work, attempting to censor by denying access tends to blow up in the authority's face with Strieisand Effect shaped explosions.

@Drag: I heard about it on the evening TV news before I heard about it here.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:23:31 PM by Elle

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157669: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:23:07 PM

[up] Video game journalism is an entirely different organism from political journalism, however, and a state actor has far, far more leverage and authority than EA could ever dream of having. EA can threaten lawsuits, and do little else. Via the regulatory state, Trump could easily make life hell for journalists looking to oppose him, assuming he's willing to trample over the country's political norms.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:24:42 PM by CaptainCapsase

henry42 [REDACTED] from Western Hemisphere Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
[REDACTED]
#157670: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:25:57 PM

@Draghinazzo I think that ought to tell you which voting base he really cares about.

One does not shake the box containing the sticky notes of doom!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157671: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:26:02 PM

assuming he's willing to trample over the country's political norms.

He's already demonstrated that pretty clearly.

Journalists are gonna have a hell of a tough time.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157672: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:27:06 PM

Forgive if I don't find 'they'll attack him the second he screws up' to be comforting, given that a) they sure weren't able to do real damage during the campaign b) they'll be working with inferior sources and c) the temptation to fall into line will be significant.

Like, I appreciate that we can't focus on everything, but, like, to me, this is the worst thing he's done since the election, moving him from 'possibly fascist' to 'definitely fascist'.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#157673: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:27:24 PM

[up][up][up][up]If he actually took it past limiting access to his chosen outlets and trying to supress all others, then it becomes a First Amendment fight. At which point, the media's kid gloves come off.

Seriously, don't fuck with an American journalist of any serious caliber. They have the ways and means to make you regret it no mater who you are.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:30:25 PM by Elle

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157674: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:29:11 PM

[up] That's assuming he can't cow them into submission and self-censorship like many other would be autocrats have in the past, freedom of the press be damned.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157675: Nov 21st 2016 at 7:29:51 PM

[up][up][up] I think some of us were already discussing the possibility of Trump trying to control the media earlier, as part of speculation about Trump trying to turn the country into an illiberal democracy. Other autocrats over the world are doing the same thing.

This latest news has just given us more reason to think he will do so, which yes is a pretty terrifying prospect we should be giving attention to.

edited 21st Nov '16 7:31:00 PM by Draghinazzo


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