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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#157501: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:31:56 PM

The point to make is that the Hilary campaign was way too much an anti-Trump campaign, that relied on the (sadly taken-for-granted) premise that Americans would never vote in someone that was sexist/racist/otherwise bigoted. That's the identity politics aspect.

A campaign more focused on the working class, rather than wealthy celebrities and academians decrying the evils of the nation, has a better chance at reclaiming the Rust Belt. Simple as that.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157502: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:32:28 PM

[up][up][up]And Trump won 30% of Latinos, which is also "quite a few". But I doubt anyone's going to characterize him as having many minority supporters like they try to do with Bernie.

That sounds right. Bernie's supporters were almost entirely middle to upper middle class young whites. And the youngest among them were the most willing to buy into Bernie's narrative of the corrupt establishment as embodied by Hillary. I have a feeling they're many of the same ones who sat out this election or voted third party.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:34:31 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157503: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:34:52 PM

[up] I'd say Trump did reasonably well among Latinos, better than Romney despite the memes that claim otherwise and expectations to the contrary.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#157504: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:36:01 PM

"And we never will if we keep up with that kind of fatalism. The whole point is that if the Democrats change their approach, maybe they can actually do something about it now."

That's doubtful, unless we start tripping over ourselves trying to reincorporate social conservatism into the party platform. The way districts, down to local districts, are drawn heavily favors the GOP. It's simply an impossibility — the people down there don't like us, don't like the party's message, and will never break ranks because the Democrats aren't going in for racism, misogyny, and homophobia anymore. I mean, the only reason there are Democrats in the Deep South, for example, outside of Atlanta and New Orleans, is because the political inertia of the party realignment means that the ascendant GOP missed a few spots and The Remnant hobbled along.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:37:05 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#157505: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:36:45 PM

Let's see....

Among the "local" levels,

my home state of Alabama recognizes:

  • Same sex marriages
  • Same sex couples
  • adoption by either of the above
  • Reassignment surgery
  • Gender reassignment on official forms.

It does not recognize anti-lgbt hate crimes, there are no protections from discrimination from businesses, employers, etc, no protections from discrimination from housing,

and worst of all, no bans on conversion therapy.

[up]I grew up Republican like all the rest of them, but I "woke".

edited 21st Nov '16 1:37:49 PM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#157506: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:37:18 PM

And youth don't vote enough to sway elections. If they did, the US wouldn't be under fascist rule and Remain would have won the Brexit race.

Also, Comey violating the Hatch Act in the last weeks of election might have cost Clinton the race. I'm not sure, maybe the polls wouldn't have tightened enough and she could have gotten enough to votes to win enough states. It was always going to be close, but perhaps Comey made it shift so that it was close in Trump's favor.

@Re: Trump's minority support: he didn't really gain or bring over that many minority voters. Their turnout plummeted in key states, either due to suppression or the same misguided apathy that white Democrats were hit with. Trump won a normal portion (for his party) of a smaller whole.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:39:07 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#157507: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:37:41 PM

[up][up]How much of that was mandated by a court ruling?

[up]Comey is a Karma Houdini of epic prroportions, but alas, he's untouchable now.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:38:50 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157508: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:38:01 PM

[up][up] They don't, but voter's political leanings rarely change all that much over the course of a lifetime, despite the "people become conservative as they age" meme. People do, however, tend to vote more often as they get older.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:38:36 PM by CaptainCapsase

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#157509: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:39:33 PM

Almost all lgbt rights in Alabama are due to Supreme court rulings. Hell, we're only allowed to do the horizontal tango due to a SC decision that struck down anti-sodomy laws nation-wide.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157510: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:40:35 PM

@Thenardier

I'm going off what I've seen of my friends and acquaintances on social media. The division was more based on age than anything. The people in my age group and younger are very mixed in terms of ethnicity, and they where predominantly Sanders and many of them were pretty harsh on Hillary until the DNC at which point they did a hard 180. Whereas older folks in their 30s and up tended to be more for Hillary from the start regardless of ethnicity. For what it's worth I'm a millennial and I leaned Hillary though I didn't vote in the primaries because I preferred to stay independent.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:42:35 PM by AlleyOop

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#157511: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:41:13 PM

[up][up][up]True, but the Baby Boomers seem intent on ruining everything for their kids and grandkids before they finally die. And if the GOP goes nuts with voter suppression, court stacking (the entire US judicial branch needs to be reformed, its just too ideological) and so forth, by the time today's youth start voting it will either be too late on big issues (economy and climate change) or the system will be legitimately rigged against them.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:41:39 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157512: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:42:26 PM

I'm going off what I've seen of my friends and acquaintances on social media.
Well there's your problem.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#157513: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:43:21 PM

After the Obergefell/Hodges case Alabama attempted to remove its own right to issue marriage licenses altogether.

That is remarkably petty and spiteful

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157514: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:43:38 PM

And youth don't vote enough to sway elections. If they did, the US wouldn't be under fascist rule and Remain would have won the Brexit race

That's because they ran their candidate out.

Remain's problem was that too many people didn't think it was going to happen and they became complacent.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#157515: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:43:56 PM

I voted Bernie on a coin toss. It actually came in handy online — a portion of those looking to have me crucified for supporting Hillary hilariously backtracked when I revealed who I voted for. The rest, about half, would start screaming "SHILL! SHILL!"

As if. I wish I got paid for my vote. Trump still would have won, but I would have appreciated a loan repayment made in my name in exchange for my vote.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157516: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:44:06 PM

@MonsieurThenardier: If you go by the actual statistics of primary voting, he did indeed win every single millenial demographic, and, with the exception of blacks (something like 56%), it was by a crushing margin.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:46:55 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#157517: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:44:42 PM

Oh please, despite some of the DNC's dirty moves, Sanders wasn't cheated out of a damn thing. He lost fair and square, his numbers never indicated that he had a chance of beating Clinton.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157518: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:45:16 PM

Goddamn it. The GOP governor of North Carolina is trying to steal an election by claiming voter fraud.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157519: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:46:11 PM

[up][up] That isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about which demographics voted for him among the youth. The answer is all of them, but most voters are fairly old, and that's especially true in primaries.

Also, I need to add that the particular incident that triggered this current spat was Sanders calling for a more universal message as opposed to micro-targeting. Which naturally got the headline "Sanders slams identity politics", leading to outrage because people seemingly don't read articles beyond the headlines any more. If that makes him "out of touch" about race, than Obama is also out of touch on race issues since he said more or less the same thing.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:51:42 PM by CaptainCapsase

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157521: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:52:45 PM

So here's an idea: It's a pretty safe bet that we're not going to have a full blown EC rebellion on our hands, and though I'd be ecstatic if there were one, I'm not getting my hopes up. But even with that being the case, I think it's still possible that some EC voters might end up voting for Clinton over Trump. Not enough to change the tide, certainly, but if enough of them vote for Clinton, it might still be enough to shake things up a bit and cast some doubts on Trump's legitimacy. Regardless of whether or not he's still elected, if enough EC voters turn their backs on him, it might cause some of his supporters to do the same, as well as turn some heads in Washington. Then again, this may just be wishful thinking, though to be fair, we could use some of it these days.tongue

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#157522: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:01:35 PM

And then the youth vote failed to show up at the polls because "Corrupt Hillary neener neener", in which they couldn't have done the right-wing media's job more thoroughly than if they'd been physically glued to Fox News.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157523: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:04:20 PM

[up] If nothing else, this election should demonstrate to those watching that blaming voters is an extremely poor political tactic.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157524: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:04:28 PM

I voted for Hillary at least. I didn't vote in the primaries because I'm Californian and Hillary had already won at that point.

A photo taken by an Associated Press photographer shows Kobach shaking Trump's hand and holding a binder and papers. The papers face the camera, and, according to a report from The Topeka Capital-Journal, when zoomed in the photo reveals plans to question "high-risk" immigrants over support for Sharia law and the U.S. Constitution, as well as a bullet point that says "Bar the Entry of Potential Terrorists."

The Topeka-Journal also noted that the document calls for an update and reintroduction of the National Security Entry-Exit Registration system, originally implemented after 9/11. It also mentioned "extreme vetting questions," for "high-risk aliens."

Kobach's papers also suggest reducing Syrian refugee intake down to zero.

There's going to be new bad shit every day isn't there?

edited 21st Nov '16 2:04:57 PM by MadSkillz

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#157525: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:13:29 PM

@Mad: Yes. Yes, there is. Like I said, we're going to be Gish Galloped with a river of bullshit, and I don't think we can realistically hope to counter more than half of it at best. Make no mistake, the name of the game now is controlling and mitigating the damage Trump and his rats can do.

It's been fun.

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