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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#157426: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:29:17 AM

Biden is "going right"?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#157427: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:30:08 AM

One, Biden who? Joe Biden the vp who is a registered Democrat?

Also, it's pointless to address individuals when I'm addressing the issue of the party as a whole, which is pretty dang terrible. And throwing a question back at me is the textbook example of avoiding answering the question yourself. So yeah, it's on you to answer the question, not to deflect.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#157428: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:30:33 AM

Brian Sims with Elizabeth Warren.

I'd vote for those two in a heartbeat.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157429: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:31:26 AM

Historical precedent suggests the Dems will re-take control of something fairly soon. Recent history is particular suggests they'll regain congress in 2018.

And, really, although it'd be surprising if they won the senate in 2018, it's still entirely winnable in general. Incumbent Democrats in 2018 should be in as cosy position as one can hope for- the forces that got them elected in the first place should be strengthened by the desire to give Trump a real check. And after that, well, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and North Carolina really should still be in play. Possibly Missouri and Florida as well.

The thing about the Senate is that one can't really gerrymander an entire state.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#157430: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:34:00 AM

I'm laughing my ass off at people who think the Democratic party is "broken".

You do realize less than a quarter of the people who are elegible to vote actually voted for Trump, and the only reason half the nation didn't vote was because of the massive smear campaign against Clinton?

Democratic party is fine. The Republicans however, have proven themselves to have thrown in with the alt-right and the KKK. I'd be surprised if undecided voters ever vote Republican again.

edited 21st Nov '16 10:34:28 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157431: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:34:21 AM

Biden is "going right"?
Compared to Clinton? Yes.

One, Biden who? Joe Biden the vp who is a registered Democrat?
Yes. I thought you were referring to my recommendation that the Democratic Party should go a bit further to the right for the next election.

Also, it's pointless to address individuals when I'm addressing the issue of the party as a whole, which is pretty dang terrible.
Oh, you were talking about my preference for a Massachusetts Republican over Warren? I had someone like Romney in mind when saying that. It's quite simple. I agree far more with, say, Romney's economic policies than Warren's. I consider her a danger to the country's wellbeing, more than perhaps any single other Democrat, and I've explained why before. I'm not going to start another multi-page long debate on that. Accusing me of supporting bigotry (which I don't think a Massachusetts Republican would be- though I haven't studied specifically who's going to be up next there) will change nothing.

And throwing a question back at me is the textbook example of avoiding answering the question yourself. So yeah, it's on you to answer the question, not to deflect.
You didn't ask a question, silly.

edited 21st Nov '16 10:38:33 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#157432: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:37:56 AM

Point of order. As someone pointed out to me earlier in this thread, Trump did get more votes than Romney, just over a million. But on the same line, about 2.5 million more people voted for Obama than showed up for Clinton.

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#157433: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:38:27 AM

I really can't see the Democratic party as permanently dead, even after such a huge loss. Clinton won the popular vote, and was maybe 100k meaningful votes away from a win. This was a super close election that was never Trump's or Clinton's. I strongly suspect that if there was a sudden magical second round of voting Clinton could very well win.

The Dems are fighting an uphill battle in 2018, but historically speaking (even if history hasn't been very kind to us in 2016) the incumbent party gains very few seats in an off-year election. Ergo a strong Democratic push could, if not necessarily flip, preserve the current state of the Senate.

More importantly, the people are still there. We're the same America we were in October. Trump may have an 80% approval rating in his own party, but he has a 30-40% approval rating overall, and this is going to be as good as it gets.

Shit's going downhill for the next four years, but for god's sake can we please cut the doomsday predictions already? We aren't going into World War III, folks. And the more you keep hyping up Hitler-Trump 2016-2020 the lower you're going to set the bar for Trump, so that when he gets away with only destroying net neutrality, fucking over the environment, and promoting stop and frisk, he'll suddenly turn and say "hey guys, look, I didn't do as bad as you liberals thought I would!", which is definitely going to throw him into a second term.

The Dems are in a whirlwind right now, and we're gonna need to make a lot of changes, but this fantasizing about destroying the democratic process (seriously what the fuck was up with that conversation) mixed with nightmares about concentration camps isn't doing any good for anyone.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157434: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:39:50 AM

[up][up]So he did. My mistake, I hadn't checked the updated numbers. My point about low turnout being responsible (and doomsaying being counterproductive) still stands though.

[up]

Shit's going downhill for the next four years, but for god's sake can we please cut the doomsday predictions already? We aren't going into World War III, folks. And the more you keep hyping up Hitler-Trump 2016-2020 the lower you're going to set the bar for Trump, so that when he gets away with only destroying net neutrality, fucking over the environment, and promoting stop and frisk, he'll suddenly turn and say "hey guys, look, I didn't do as bad as you liberals thought I would!", which is definitely going to throw him into a second term.

The Dems are in a whirlwind right now, and we're gonna need to make a lot of changes, but this fantasizing about destroying the democratic process (seriously what the fuck was up with that conversation) mixed with nightmares about concentration camps isn't doing any good for anyone.

[awesome]

edited 21st Nov '16 10:41:13 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#157435: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:44:56 AM

Yeah, so while the forecasts of doom and anti-doom were flying, Trump tried to gaslight reality, and the media didn't bother factchecking.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157436: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:45:13 AM

One thing's for sure: there will be a lot more civil disobedience in the next few years.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157437: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:49:11 AM

I'm pretty sure when Thernadier is talking about the Democratic pushing a more right-wing candidate, he's not implying they have right wing views on social issues. AFAIK Tim Ryan and Steve Bullock are both pro LGBT+ and pro-choice, just for one thing.

edited 21st Nov '16 10:50:59 AM by Draghinazzo

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#157438: Nov 21st 2016 at 10:53:03 AM

For the record: I meant the "armed revolution" option as a last, insane, desperate option, a worst case scenario (more like worst case but still maybe salvageable scenario, worst case is GOP 4ever, probably). Not as something I'd actually endorse or believe should be attempted short of Trump actually trying to enact a genocide.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157439: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:01:07 AM

sup. Also all this talk of a civil war from protesters though, they don't know that it would likely be short lived.

What? What is this?
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#157440: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:05:57 AM

An armed revolt would get put down in a heartbeat, and I don't doubt that Trump would be salivating at the chance to carpet bomb an openly hostile Boston or San Francisco. The Democrats might be in the doldrums, but they'll never, ever emerge again if all their voters are gunned down by the National Guard.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157441: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:08:10 AM

I mean, if you look at where the political division actually are, it doesn't really look like a civil war would quite work. Because it's not north vs. south, it's city vs. country. I have a lot of trouble imagining that war, especially given that the 'city' faction is the one that seems more likely to start it.

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157442: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:08:25 AM

Exactly and the people that keeps talking about wanting to start a civil war should think about the consequences of what that civil war would do before throwing their lifes away.

What? What is this?
AzureSpiritStone Since: Aug, 2014
#157443: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:13:22 AM

I for one, am getting absolutely sick of the doomsaying.

We aren't done yet. It takes time for potential candidates to get momentum. And as has been stated, those whispering about revolution are not thinking about the consequences at all.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157444: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:21:23 AM

The Democrats are only doomed if they refuse to do anything about their current state. Which they won't and can't afford to. Yes of course things will go south if the Democrats continue at their current pace because they've allowed themselves to drift into a state of unusual weakness due to complacency. But regardless of Bernie Sanders' other issues, with him on board the party has signaled that it's going to return to valuing grassroots activism, something many of the DNC elites like Wasserman Schultz seem to have forgotten.

[up] Seriously, agreed.

[up][up][up][up] Don't be ridiculous. Trump is a city elite, he has no personal desire to rid himself of urban centers. As evil as Trump is you fundamentally misunderstand our situation if you think this is something he would actively advocate, considering cities are some of the 1%'s favorite playgrounds.

[down] He's already had his chance and lost it by hiring people like Steve Bannon, Jeff Sessions, and all his family cronies, by engaging in Twitter feuds with the cast of Hamilton over a non-complaint, by reiterating that he's still planning to build a wall on the Mexican border, by continually threatening to have Obamacare revoked, by allowing himself to be easily bribed by foreign diplomats, and by allowing his people to continue discussing Muslim concentration camps without censure. The civil war and armed insurrection talk is indeed ridiculous, but I'm not letting him off the hook just because he passes the bare minimum of not being Too Stupid To Live.

edited 21st Nov '16 11:28:51 AM by AlleyOop

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157445: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:22:31 AM

Honestly even i am getting tired of people acting like the world is over because trump won. Honestly at least give him a chance and starting a civil war is gonna make shit even worse.

What? What is this?
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#157446: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:24:21 AM

Oh for fuck's sake. First of all, this is not quitting the doomsaying, Second of all, having any of our leaders actively bomb a city in the US is the perfect way to actually inspire an armed revolt. It's also not going to happen, and Trump, as much as a fuckstick as he is, is probably not actually eager to bomb a US city and saying that he is is extremely insulting. Fuck's sake, being a bigot doesn't necessarily go to "destroy cities because reasons". Aside of that, I"m pretty sure everyone else in the Republican party is aware that actively destroying a US city in its entirety is actual despotism. Just because something is awful doesn't mean they hold the most awful idea, or are actively stupid.

[up] He's had his chance and wasted it as far as I'm concerned. But again, that doesn't mean I think he's going to literally bomb a fucking city.

Also, also, for all idiotic talk of revolution here, I'm going to point out that there's no movement for such a thing among the protesters that have been on the news. They're about civil disobedience, not totally destroying the country.

edited 21st Nov '16 11:26:35 AM by AceofSpades

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157447: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:28:04 AM

TBF, we have been giving Trump chances for the last couple of weeks. So far, he's appointed several white supremacists to his Cabinet (and one to an unofficial brand new position of "Chief Strategist"), gotten into Twitter fights with the NY Times (again), SNL, and Hamilton, paid 25 million dollars to settle the Trump University suit, has asked for security clearance for his children, supposedly called a foreign leader on an unsecured line, abandoned his press pool to go to a steakhouse, threatened to leave the Paris Accords dealing with climate change, claimed that he wants to spend every weekend in Trump Tower instead of the WH...and there was the small matter of him having no idea he needed to replace the entire WH staff.

Bit of a rocky start, to say the least.

edited 21st Nov '16 11:30:26 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#157448: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:30:52 AM

Frankly, I'm not looking for any kind of miraculous Democratic resurgence in the next two to four years so much as I am for Trump's administration to effectively get laughed out of power.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157449: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:31:29 AM

[up] If we're lucky, we'll get both. evil grin

Disgusted, but not surprised
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157450: Nov 21st 2016 at 11:31:57 AM

If that doesn't happen, then what?

What? What is this?

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