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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157326: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:52:19 AM

'cause, I mean, Bernie's populist wave wasn't large enough for him to actually win the primaries.

Because Hillary's power-base during the primaries was in the south which ended up not mattering in the general election since she did not win a single southern state aside from Virginia which was probably due to picking Tim Kaine as her VP and she only won it narrowly last time I checked.

Bernie won those Rust Belt states that she lost and also a large chunk of his support was coming from independents that couldn't vote in most of the democratic primaries.

Why should it give him Trump-esque scandal immunity?

I don't it would've necessarily but I think he would've been able to weather those better than Hillary by the simple fact that he's not a Clinton and hasn't been in the public eye for 30 years.

Plus, unlike Hilary, who appeared centrist enough that she had a chance of winning over people who normally vote Republican but dislike Trump, Bernie appeared to be far-left enough that he'd be risking sending them crawling back to Trump.

But Hillary also scared off the voters who were primarily looking for an anti-establishment candidate and really ended that populist movement brewing from the left.

There were far more people looking for someone they saw as outside the system than republicans willing to vote for Hillary.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:54:02 AM by MadSkillz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157327: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:54:12 AM

[up][up] Sanders' campaign also really shat the bed in Nevada.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157328: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:54:16 AM

@M84: People surprised discover that the GOP is now the party of Trump include a non-neglible percentage of GOP politicians.

@Red: One would hope so. McCain was a PoW. If he's not going to stick to his guns about that, he can't be relied upon to stick to his guns about anything.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:55:24 AM by Gilphon

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157329: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:55:56 AM

Yeah sanders likely misspoke on that part. Then again what would've happened if mccain won?

What? What is this?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#157330: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:56:25 AM

I'd note that with Sanders while the substance of scandals might have been greater the timeline of them wouldn't have been.

Clinton wasn't hurt by her scandals because they were true but because people have been hearing about them for years, Sanders would have been the reverse, true scandals that were only very recently coming to light. As such Sanders might have been okay.

The fact that we're in a post-fact world hurt Clinton, it might have benefited Sanders.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157331: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:56:37 AM

[up][up][up] Not that it matters. The GOP politicians will fall in line. They almost always do.

Then again, Nixon was nearly impeached by the Democrats and the GOP...

[up] Living in a post-fact world certainly aided Trump. Heck, it might have been the reason he won the election.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:58:05 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157332: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:58:25 AM

Basically I think Hillary would've made a better president than Sanders and Trump but I still think Sanders would've been able to beat to Trump.

Sanders had a message for people to rally around.

The message that people heard from Hillary was Trump is bad so vote for me.

And yeah, Hillary's dirty laundry was far more recent than Bernie's.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157333: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:01:12 AM

The idea that Sanders would have beaten Trump is completely unsupported by any of the actual data that's been gathered since the election ended, which have overwhelmingly showed a preference for more conservative candidates than Clinton. Even ignoring how ridiculously easy it would be to sink him just by playing completely truthful videos.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:01:52 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157334: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:01:29 AM

i'm going to bed. It was fun chatting on here. Goodnight people

What? What is this?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157335: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:02:30 AM

Had McCain won the Republican primary over Dubya in 2000 (lost partly because of racist GOPers pushing fake stories about McCain having black bastard children) I'd say we'd be on a substantially different course than where we are now.

[up]Night, glad we could have a civil discussion.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:04:25 AM by AlleyOop

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157336: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:02:43 AM

[up][up] G'nite. I hope we gave you food for thought. Or at least, an amusing way to kill some time.

[up] Huh, so they pulled the same shit they did on Bill Clinton?

edited 21st Nov '16 1:03:27 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157337: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:09:49 AM

If Mc Cain wins the primaries then the Iraq War never happens (heck, depending on the variables, 9/11 may not happen) and history basically becomes unrecognizable from that point.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157338: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:10:37 AM

Yep.

In hindsight considering that such things were viable means of attacking candidates, and that the Secret Muslim Kenyan Obama rumors continued to get so much traction, it really shouldn't be a surprise that Trump was able to coast in on the platform that he did.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157339: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:10:59 AM

The idea that Sanders would have beaten Trump is completely unsupported by any of the actual data that's been gathered since the election ended, which have overwhelmingly showed a preference for more conservative candidates than Clinton. Even ignoring how ridiculously easy it would be to sink him just by playing completely truthful videos.

Here ya go.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157340: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:12:39 AM

[up][up] Which is one reason I've been starting to believe that someone like Trump becoming POTUS was all but inevitable.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157341: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:18:31 AM

[up][up]Excuse me if I'm skeptical of a poll of 1,600 people of questionable methodology from the Huffington Post when the actual results showed overwhelming preference for conservative candidates.

...especially one that showed Hillary winning the election by four points.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:19:47 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#157342: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:20:33 AM

I'm not aware of post-election data showing a preference for a more conservative candidate, there's plenty of data showing a desire for a candidate that represents change, but the direction of that change seems unimportant. Hell ideology was actually a minimal factor in this election, a lot came down to personality and if a candidate was seen as dirty enough.

The idea that Clinton was to left wing seems to be a fantasy, she was to mainstream and to establishment, but those are traits one can find on the left and right.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#157343: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:34:02 AM

[up][up]Though if you followed the polling this election, you might have noticed that Gravis actually worked with Breitbart.

And Clinton still won those.

edited 21st Nov '16 1:34:20 AM by Eschaton

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#157344: Nov 21st 2016 at 1:35:59 AM

Any notable news since 10 pages ago?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Madrugada MOD Since: Jan, 2001
#157345: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:08:04 AM

Hey, y'all, I'd just like to say that when I started dealing with that flare-up five pages back I was really concerned that the thread might need a cool-down lock for a few days.

I'm proud of you. Very proud of the whole lot of you. You recognized and stopped what could have been really really ugly by yourselves, before it got too big.

All the thumps were just to get the remnant out of the way so no-one comes in tomorrow to catch up, sees it and thread hops to respond and reignite it before they get to the end.

So, thanks for reminding me why I wanted to come back. Thanks for showing me that this is still a pretty damn great community to be associated with.

I like self-extinguishing flame wars. You done good.[tup][tup][awesome][tup][awesome]

edited 21st Nov '16 2:08:45 AM by Madrugada

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#157346: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:25:46 AM

RE: Another civil war in the US: Considering we have minorities threatened by anyone who is pro-Republican and will probably include religions that aren't Christian, maybe Catholics too, as well as Trump being chummy with Russians, it's more or less another Spanish Civil War, but in the US. Now we just need the following:

1. Disgruntled US Armed Forces personnel.

2. Foreign volunteers ala the International Brigades.

3. Stand-ins for the Anarchists who occupied Barcelona.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#157347: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:48:26 AM

There is not going to be another civil war unless Trump attempts to suspend democracy and somehow gets a part of the government (be it a chunk of the military, several police forces, the FBI, multiple state governments or Congress) to go along with him, so far we have no indicator that Trump will try anything or that he'd get the needed support.

The most likely exstream situation that Trump does something so out of line he gets impeached, however he refuses to recognise the impeachment and the Secret Service have to remove him from the White House by force.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157348: Nov 21st 2016 at 2:52:22 AM

[up] ...I gotta admit, I'd pay to see the Secret Service drag Trump out of the WH.

edited 21st Nov '16 2:53:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157349: Nov 21st 2016 at 3:08:20 AM

There is not going to be another civil war unless Trump attempts to suspend democracy and somehow gets a part of the government (be it a chunk of the military, several police forces, the FBI, multiple state governments or Congress) to go along with him, so far we have no indicator that Trump will try anything or that he'd get the needed support. The most likely exstream situation that Trump does something so out of line he gets impeached, however he refuses to recognise the impeachment and the Secret Service have to remove him from the White House by force.

I'll play the fun hypothetical game.

Trump's approval rating tanks hard but he gets re-elected through the electoral vote again but he loses the popular vote by an even bigger margin.

California, Washington, Oregon, Nevada(The Republic of the West) and New England secede to form two separate nations in alliance with each other.

The Republic of the West and New England make a deal with the devil and ally with Russia to keep the remnants of the US from nuking them and Russia starts building missile silos in California and New York.

Mass dessertions in the army, marines, Air Force and navy as Westerners and New Englanders go to protect their new nations.

The leftovers of America are all in on Trump and Trump whips the conservatives into giving him more emergency powers until :

Trump: The loss of the West and New England has dealt us a devastating blow, but I assure you my resolve has never been stronger. In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the Republic shall be reorganized into the Free American Empire for a safe and secure society!

-applause by the conservative senate-

edited 21st Nov '16 3:08:35 AM by MadSkillz

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#157350: Nov 21st 2016 at 3:09:39 AM

But the Russians have Trump in their pocket. Why would they support the opposition?

Oh really when?

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