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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157301: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:27:32 AM

Basically there were no perfect candidates and each of them had some shit qualities to them.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157302: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:28:00 AM

[up][up][up]You mean like how Hilary was able to shake off the email bullshit?

[up]While I broadly agree with the sentiment, I dislike how you're framing that as a quality specific to this election. Or even as a quality specific to politicians.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:29:20 AM by Gilphon

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#157303: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:28:04 AM

And there's a strength in the argument that even Cuba is doing something better than us. It plays right in the desire of a large percentage of Americans who want to get their country "on the right track."

I just wish the track they chose was less bigoted.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157304: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:28:17 AM

Bernie's little speech about how the Cubans love Castro because he gave them healthcare reminded me of this clip from an otherwise crappy movie.

Cuba is doing something better than us
Cuba is a basket case that has consistently lagged behind the rest of the world on economic growth despite its prime position, and was only able to avoid becoming an absolute mess through very generous Soviet donations. Using it as a positive example for anything is insane.

Honestly, I think Bernie would've been able to brush that off with a little hurt thrown on the campaign.
Fucking Obama, basically as Republican a candidate as the Democrats were likely to offer, got accused of being a Socialist. Hillary got hounded throughout the entire election for fake scandals. How do you think an actual Socialist with actual scandals would've fared? Before even bringing up his frankly terrible record as a person (welfare queen until he was nearly 35, deadbeat, literally got kicked out of a hippie commune for being too lazy) that would certainly be thrown around in campaign season?

edited 21st Nov '16 12:35:25 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#157305: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:29:34 AM

I think people are also underestimating just how much having a socialist Jewish candidate would be a field day for the alt-right. They're already neo-Nazis, after all; having Bernie as an excuse to start spreading that filth into more mainstream channels would be a blessing for them.

It's been fun.
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#157306: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:31:38 AM

Cuba is a basket case that has consistently lagged behind the rest of the world on economic growth despite its prime position

A prime position by being embargoed by the US? Yeah right.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157307: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:31:38 AM

[up][up] Bernie Sanders is also an atheist, something some jerk in the DNC (revealed in their leaked emails) contemplated using against Bernie to get him to drop out of the primaries since he refused to quit even after it was mathematically impossible for him to win. TBF, this was just some asshole shooting the shit — the DNC didn't actually use his atheism against him.

I can't imagine the atheism going over so well in the general election.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:32:36 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157308: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:34:13 AM

@Gilphon Hillary had the disadvantage of being a Clinton, associated with scandals that people could remember very recently and seen as an establishment figure.

Again, I say that Bernie had a populist movement behind him along with being anti-establishment.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157309: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:35:10 AM

[up] Bernie Sanders certainly helped reinforce the image of HRC as an EBIL establishment figure during the primaries. Which explains why his attempt to endorse her after the primaries didn't go over so well with his more, um, ardent supporters.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:37:21 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157310: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:36:37 AM

That movie american carol? I find it hard to believe it came out in 2008 when the film looks like it was made in the 90s

What? What is this?
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157311: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:38:20 AM

Fucking Obama, basically as Republican a candidate as the Democrats were likely to offer, got accused of being a Socialist.

You scream Socialist! enough times and it stops having meaning. If Obama was a socialist and we did well under Obama then maybe we should bring another socialist in.

Hillary got hounded throughout the entire election for fake scandals.

People were already pre-disposed to dislike Hillary.

How do you think an actual Socialist with actual scandals would've fared? Before even bringing up his frankly terrible record as a person (welfare queen until he was nearly 35, deadbeat, literally got kicked out of a hippie commune for being too lazy) that would certainly be thrown around in campaign season?

Would've had less of an effect than Hillary's perceived scandals.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157312: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:39:03 AM

According to studies people cared more about the atheism bit than the Jewish part, which I find kind of funny and also sad.

@Mad Skillz's dad

That's exactly how a lot of people on on my dad's side of the family operate. Even my dad sips from that well sometimes. He usually votes Democrat because he grew up on their welfare and because it was JFK who passed the Immigration and Nationality Act, but a lot of his actual views are more Republican-lite. Would explain why despite the relative dropoff in minorities who voted Trump this year that there's a surprisingly strong well of continued support for the Republicans from minorities who will brush off actual bigoted statements of theirs or try to play whataboutism with the Democrats. Stockholm syndrome over the Cold War plus economic self-interest and somehow thinking party loyalty will protect them from Republican bigotry.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:40:05 AM by AlleyOop

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157313: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:41:14 AM

@Monsieur Thenardier

Seems like a lot of Sanders' supporters didn't really know much about the guy but were drawn to his rhetoric and policy proposals. And the fact that he wasn't HRC.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:41:48 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157314: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:41:17 AM

Bernie Sanders certainly helped reinforce the image of HRC as an EBIL establishment figure during the primaries. Which explains why his attempt to endorse her after the primaries didn't go over so well with his more, um, ardent supporters.

Yep. Bernie held out too long that it started hurting Hillary.

The DNC's corruption had the Bernie supporters start crossing over to Trump or choosing not to vote.

A lot of those Bernie supporters were also in the Rust Belt.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#157315: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:41:36 AM

How do you think an actual Socialist with actual scandals would've fared? Before even bringing up his frankly terrible record as a person (welfare queen until he was nearly 35, deadbeat, literally got kicked out of a hippie commune for being too lazy) that would certainly be thrown around in campaign season?
You make valid points, but I can't help but turn around and look at who just got elected president.

I think it would've worked out fine.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:45:24 AM by Eschaton

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157316: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:43:53 AM

You sure are making some pretty strong assumptions based on what appears to be wishful thinking there.

'cause, I mean, Bernie's populist wave wasn't large enough for him to actually win the primaries. Why should it give him Trump-esque scandal immunity?

Plus, unlike Hilary, who appeared centrist enough that she had a chance of winning over people who normally vote Republican but dislike Trump, Bernie appeared to be far-left enough that he'd be risking sending them crawling back to Trump.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:44:16 AM by Gilphon

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157317: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:46:47 AM

That's exactly how a lot of people on on my dad's side of the family operate. Even my dad sips from that well sometimes. He usually votes Democrat because he grew up on their welfare and because it was JFK who passed the Immigration and Nationality Act, but a lot of his actual views are more Republican-lite. Would explain why despite the relative dropoff in minorities who voted Trump this year that there's a surprisingly strong well of continued support for the Republicans from minorities who will brush off actual bigoted statements of theirs or try to play whataboutism with the Democrats. Stockholm syndrome over the Cold War plus economic self-interest and somehow thinking party loyalty will protect them from Republican bigotry.

I believe that Reagan signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act turned my dad into a Republican loyalist since it legalized his little brother.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157318: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:47:15 AM

Seriously though, Sanders is every negative stereotype about the left come to life. To wit:

  • He joined the Liberty Union Party which was explicitly Socialist, and ran under that party at that crazy young age of... 35.

  • He said that cancer is caused by women not having enough orgasms, again in that wild youthful time of his early 30s.

  • He wrote essays about how women fantasize about being gang raped.

  • He lived on welfare and odds jobs until his mid 30s despite having a college degree and no health issues.

  • He got kicked out of a hippy commune for being too lazy and preachy.

  • He praised Chavez's Venezuela as a role model for the USA... in 2011.

  • He hung a Soviet flag in his office as mayor of Burlington.

  • He said breadlines were a good thing.

  • His wife mismanaged Burlington College into crashing and he benefitted financially when it did so.

  • He called the USA a banana republic.

  • He dumped nuclear waste on a poor Hispanic community, despite their community being poorly suited to take said waste compared to many in Vermont, because he wanted to be more popular there. He continued to do this even as representatives from that community came to Vermont to beg him not to.

  • He praised Fidel Castro.

  • He went to a "Death to America" rally where Sandinistas were literally chanting "the Yankee will die", stepped on stage, and called them proud patriots.

  • His ideological allies in Congress hate his guts because they think he's an arrogant holier-than-thou prick who rants about how pure he is while other people actually try to get things done.

  • Etc.

Take every single negative accusation leveled at every Democratic politician by the right. Now make them all true. That's Sanders.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#157319: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:47:34 AM

[up][up][up]Yeah, I won't deny that.

Part of me also wonders, if Sanders had been VP (a notoriously powerless position, usually), how large the split would've been between the supporters who would've seen him as a progressive gadfly vs. a sell-out.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:50:07 AM by Eschaton

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157320: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:47:37 AM

[up]x5

The difference with Bernie Sanders compared to Trump is that for whatever his personal issues may be, Sanders has actual technical knowledge of government workings and belief in an actual cause that would motivate him to surround himself with competent people rather than patsies who profess more socialism than thou.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:52:16 AM by AlleyOop

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157321: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:47:55 AM

[up][up][up][up] A lot of old-school GOP loyalists seem to be in denial over what the GOP has become. It is not the party of Lincoln. It is not even the party of Reagan. It's the party of Trump.

[up][up][up] ...Wow, Sanders was an asshole in his thirties.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:49:27 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#157322: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:50:34 AM

So, I just saw this; I wonder if McCain will stick to his guns on this.

It's been fun.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157323: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:51:24 AM

[up] He hasn't so far in this election cycle...

Disgusted, but not surprised
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157324: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:51:30 AM

[up][up][up]thats a lot of negative stereotypes from him. You forgot the part where he said white people don't know what its like to be poor.

What? What is this?
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157325: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:51:31 AM

@Alley During his campaign he surrounded himself with nutjobs, like hiring a proponent of MMT that almost all modern economists agree is bonkers as his chief economic advisor. So no.

[up]I'm willing to cut him a bit of slack and assume he just misspoke there.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:53:51 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."

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