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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157276: Nov 20th 2016 at 11:57:19 PM

[up][up][up] HRC didn't exactly help herself in that case since her main argument for backpedaling on the TPP was that it "didn't meet her gold standard". She also picked a TPP supporter (who also backpedaled) as her VP candidate.

Probably didn't help that Bill Clinton was the guy who signed NAFTA.

edited 20th Nov '16 11:59:19 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157277: Nov 20th 2016 at 11:59:55 PM

To be fair if bernie was her vp, she'd win or at least how imagine

What? What is this?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157278: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:01:13 AM

[up] TBF, there's a reason making a rival your running mate isn't encouraged. It didn't work out so well for John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. It also didn't work out very well for Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#157279: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:01:34 AM

Trump improving minority numbers is a statistical falsehood. He got an increased percentage of the minority vote but minority turnout was down from my understanding, Trump didn't get a higher number of minority votes then past Republicans, his opponent simply got a lower number of minority votes compared to past Democrats.

Going from 4 out of 20 to 3 out of 10 is getting less votes but an increase in the percentage of the vote. That's what Trump did.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157280: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:03:03 AM

[up] And the lower minority turnout was partly due to increased voter suppression, especially in North Carolina. The GOP really took advantage of the absence of the Voting Rights Act.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157281: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:03:33 AM

Hillary making Bernie her Vice President would've saved her because Bernie had popularity in the crucial areas she lost to Trump.

She came in with the disadvantage of having NAFTA and the TPP stink on her and ignoring the Rust Belt pretty much sunk her.

The demographic shift that her team was expecting to help her all happened in the wrong areas like California or wasn't to the degree that they were hoping for.

It was an incompetently led campaign.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157282: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:04:42 AM

Ehh. There was a bunch of fairly damaging-looking stuffnote  on Bernie that the GOP would've used if he'd still been a factor after the primaries.

Plus, I mean, Hillary won the popular vote by a huge margin and only lost the Rust Belt states she lost by one percent. The combined total of everything against her made her lose by the smallest margin imaginable, so I don't find it constructive to go into 'what ifs' about what she could've done differently when really it was a sheer fluke that she lost.

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157283: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:05:16 AM

I agree. She keeps blaming everyone else but herself. Had she not screwed bernie over she would've won.

What? What is this?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157284: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:06:04 AM

[up][up] At the very least, she could have held a rally or two in the Rust Belt States and made her case as to why 1) coal is dying and Trump isn't going to save it, and 2) that she could give them a new future beyond coal.

[up] She mostly blamed Comey's last minute interference costing her campaign "momentum".

edited 21st Nov '16 12:07:23 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157285: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:06:36 AM

[up][up]She hasn't actually said anything of the sort.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:08:37 AM by Gilphon

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#157286: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:07:14 AM

Clinton didn't screw Sanders over, at all. That has also been debunked.

Anyway, would a rival from the same party carry the same disadvantage as earlier cases, where the rival was from the opposite party because they didn't have V Ps on the presidential ticket?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#157287: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:07:14 AM

Clinton didn't screw Sanders over, at all. That has also been debunked.

Anyway, would a rival from the same party carry the same disadvantage as earlier cases, where the rival was from the opposite party because they didn't have V Ps on the presidential ticket?

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#157288: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:07:21 AM

@Anime: Honestly, the thing that scares me most is that Trump seems very malleable. He'll say (and do) whatever it seems the people around him want him to do - he's got a history of changing his statements, even backtracking on a number of his major campaign talking points already since the election. And here's the thing - Trump is surrounding himself with very scary people. Pence wants to completely defund HIV research. Bannon is a white supremacist, and the staff of Breitbart aren't any better. He's legitimized Alex Jones.

I'm afraid of what these people are going to do to our country and to people I love.

It's been fun.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#157289: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:07:37 AM

Yeah I haven't seen any statements of blame from her at all, care to link to them?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157290: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:08:12 AM

[up][up] Trump is, in many ways, a Weak-Willed Adult Child.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:08:27 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157291: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:13:53 AM

@M84: I mean, it's easy to say what she should've done when we have the benefit of knowing exactly how things went wrong. But it also bears keeping in mind that she was polling way ahead in the Rust Belt for most of the election- the polls tightened at the last moment because, among other things, Trump started campaigning really hard in Michigan. And the polls still showed her ahead despite that. (though not so far ahead that what ended up happening was outside the range of probability)

So, from her perspective, why would focusing on states that seem safe-ish be the best use of her time?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157292: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:15:11 AM

[up] Yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157293: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:15:39 AM

Basically Trump could be okay if he had a set of great advisors but he's got a team of super-villains around him instead because his rhetoric to garner support scared off the regular Republicans which left only the bad apples to support him which he then rewarded with important positions around him for their loyalty to him.

Even Newt Gingrich, Rudy Guiliani and Chris Christie got left out in the cold.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:20:08 AM by MadSkillz

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157294: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:19:16 AM

If Trump surrounded himself with component advisers, and actually is as easily-influenced and without a real agenda as he sometimes appears, he'd be only slightly worse than not having a president at all.

But I think we can afford to hold presidents to a higher standard than that.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157295: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:19:24 AM

To be fair if bernie was her vp, she'd win or at least how imagine
Bernie "bread lines are good, death to America!" Sanders would've sunk her campaign faster than a Long Lance. Trump would just need to play the videos of him praising Castro or bring up the time he talked about how the USA is a banana republic and Hugo Chavez knows what he's doing.

Mostly bullshit, but since when has that mattered?
Actually, no. They could've gotten away with telling nothing but the truth in this case. This isn't an "Obama is a socialist!" situation, Bernie genuinely was an anti-American communist. He possibly still is an anti-American communist, just hiding it better for the mainstream. What's indisputable though is that he was praising Hugo Chavez's Venezuela as a role model for the USA as late as 2011.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:26:39 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157296: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:20:39 AM

Bernie praised castro? What the fuck? Are you for real?

What? What is this?
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#157297: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:22:12 AM

Yes.

"Everyone was convinced that Castro was the worst guy in the world, and that all the Cuban people would rise against Fidel Castro. What they forgot is that Castro educated their kids, gave them healthcare, totally transformed their society. Not to say that Fidel Castro is perfect, he's certainly not. But just beacuse Ronald Raegan dislikes these people doesn't mean the people in these nations feel the same way."

Sure Bernie, they're really grateful to their dictator for all the progress he brought.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:25:05 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157298: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:23:38 AM

Yep, that happened That's taking it somewhat out of context, of course, but if you think that would matter, you're taking a naive view of politics.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#157299: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:25:29 AM

Bernie "bread lines are good, death to America!" Sanders would've sunk her campaign faster than a Long Lance. Trump would just need to play the videos of him praising Castro or bring up the time he talked about how the USA is a banana republic and Hugo Chavez knows what he's doing

I think that would've further sunk her chances in Florida but she lost that anyways.

Honestly, I think Bernie would've been able to brush that off with a little hurt thrown on the campaign. And Bernie has the advantage of being able to motivate people to come out and vote plus he would've been able to siphon off voters from Trump.

edited 21st Nov '16 12:26:13 AM by MadSkillz

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#157300: Nov 21st 2016 at 12:26:00 AM

I just got done watching it and i couldn't help but laugh and read the comments. One of them calling bernie a lying cuck and the other saying cuba, where people turn their trucks into boats to escape.

What? What is this?

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