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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#157026: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:41:30 AM

The thing is that colleges in the U.S. are genuinely expensive, mainly because the demand for them being higher due to just being more people attending them (and not just U.S. residents, quite a few people come from overseas here for education), coupled with the costs of sports programs.

I've been noting in various threads that U.S. higher education is a economic bubble that is going to burst sooner or later; and Trump's plan would push it towards sooner.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157027: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:43:27 AM

[up] The sports programs are a huge part of the problem, thanks to Americans' near fervent worship of certain sports.

Do colleges and high schools really need huge stadiums?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157028: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:43:40 AM

If it means killing college sports, I'll take the risk. God I hate our athlete worship. waste of goddamn money.

A: "You got into your first choice school! wow! That must have taken a lot of work"

B: "Oh yeah, loaded with extracurriculars, and straight As, plus working part time to save up for tuition"

C: "Oh hey I got in too, congrats!"

A:"What'd you do?"

C:"I can throw a ball pretty far"

edited 20th Nov '16 6:45:58 AM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#157029: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:44:26 AM

Totally down for killing college sports as well.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157030: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:45:03 AM

It's pretty rough on the student athletes too. Take a gander at John Oliver's segment on the NCAA. The "education" they get is usually bullshit.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:46:30 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#157031: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:47:51 AM

Don't college sports pay for themselves (and not their students)?

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157032: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:48:49 AM

No, they are a horrific drain on our resources and need to be burned to the ground and the their stadiums SALTED.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:49:05 AM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157033: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:49:42 AM

[up][up] I don't know. Back to the topic of climate change though, now was the absolute worst time to put someone with Trump's attitude in the white house. We can only hope that, similar to how Ronald Reagan changed his mind about the prospect of nuclear war (allegedly after watching War Games), Trump will have a change of heart about climate change.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:49:57 AM by CaptainCapsase

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#157034: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:50:17 AM

Sometimes they pay for themselves. Usually they don't.

May want to spin this off into a general education discussion thread, I think.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157035: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:51:26 AM

[up][up][up][up] Not really. Most college sports are basically Ponzi schemes. They're not actually capable of sustaining themselves on their own.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:52:18 AM by AlleyOop

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157036: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:05:37 AM

It's america, everything is an exploitation scheme. If it isn't obvious, dig deeper.

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#157037: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:06:38 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#157038: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:10:23 AM

Legally, the answer is simple enough: create two types of business license. One would be for education (required for colleges and universities), and the other would be for sports (required for earning money off of a sports franchise). Then make them mutually exclusive; you can't have both.

Socially, I don't know, but that's kind of outside the scope of this thread.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157039: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:16:14 AM

you'd just see more shell companies. The only real option at this point is to let them destroy themselves, or nuke them from orbit and carefully crush the life out of any sports teams/companies/whatever that survive to make sure they don't take root again.

And probably tax the SHIT out of endorsement deals.

edited 20th Nov '16 7:17:11 AM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#157040: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:19:08 AM

... Honestly, it'd probably be a good idea to just flat our force every single college student that isn't disabled to take up some form of exercise for, oh, 4-5 hours a week. I'm basing this on my current social circle as a comp-sci student. But.. competitive sports while studying? That's nuts. Being a competitive athlete is a full time job. So is being a serious student. Being both at the same time is.. not really possible. If you have the surplus for it, you're not enrolled in challenging enough classes.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#157041: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:21:50 AM

That would mean coming to terms with the fact that the sun is setting on the American Empire, something which took Britain several decades to move past.

Sadly, the UK has not moved past it. Look at the Brexit vote.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#157043: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:37:17 AM

I'm quite a bit behind posting this because this thread moves fast and I need minor things like sleep.

Anyway, I wanted to address StephanReiken's and the threads discussion about the emails, starting roughly about here. Bit of a dead horse, I know, but there's a point that wasn't brought up given Stephan's concern seemed to be about leaking national secrets: the reports that President-Elect Trump was speaking to world leaders on an unsecured line and had Ivanka sit in on a meeting with Japan's prime minister. If one or the other has been debunked since I heard of them, then nevermind the follow up.

If the worst Comey could say about Clinton's email server is it was "careless" then what would you call the above? An unsecured line plus Trump's tendency to shoot his mouth off could spell bad news.

Personally, my issue regarding the email server was more about transparency than national security because, to me, the biggest difference between Clinton and Trump is that Clinton would have been competent, and to me that's true even if she was guilty as sin of every charge of corruption levied against her.

If your concern is national security, then Trump's blasé attitude about it before even being sworn in has already eclipsed the worst Clinton has done.

edited 20th Nov '16 7:38:16 AM by sgamer82

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#157044: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:45:55 AM

Trump is a completely shameless snake oil salesman. All the news about his administration has indicated it will likely be one of the most corrupt governments imaginable, and yet someone wants to talk about Hillary's corruption, when at worst she's just a garden variety politician? Are you kidding me?

Like, I legitimately don't know how you can say that "we'd still have a country after 4 years" when Trump might be in the middle of turning the US into an illiberal democracy.

That would not have happened during a Hillary administration.

Not to mention the climate change denialism, the validation of bigots and hate groups everywhere, the complete lack of political experience, etc.

Do you have any idea what this all might mean for freedom of the press? For the civil rights of LGBT people, minorities, and women everywhere? For people reliant on the ACA?

By supporting Trump you are, at the least, implicitly leaving those people to rot. And for what? If you can't understand why people have a problem with that I don't know what else I can say.

You're literally talking about a man who's treating the process of selecting his appointments like a fucking reality TV show.

edited 20th Nov '16 8:02:01 AM by Draghinazzo

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#157045: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:48:02 AM

I'd argue the Brexit vote is the ultimate example of moving past it. The United Kingdom has an opportunity to remain relevant on the global stage via the EU and they chose no. The new populist-right is mostly isolationist, even despite some of Trump's more hawkish hires, his base has no desire for a ground war.

Edit: I was talking with a friend of mine who's pursuing a Political Science Ph D, and I remarked that the interesting thing about this "wave" compared to other international political waves is that this is a wave run by the 50+ crowd, which is cause for hope. This isn't the new Fascism because Fascists were a movement with a strong youth component, while the youth overwhelming reject Brexit and Trump, though the chattering classes rarely play up the fact that this is a generational war as much as any other divide.

edited 20th Nov '16 7:51:56 AM by Ogodei

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157046: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:48:21 AM

[up][up] Don't forget that he might completely fuck up the global economy, if he's serious about starting a trade war with China.

edited 20th Nov '16 7:48:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#157047: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:56:17 AM

I'd argue the Brexit vote is the ultimate example of moving past it. The United Kingdom has an opportunity to remain relevant on the global stage via the EU and they chose no. The new populist-right is mostly isolationist, even despite some of Trump's more hawkish hires, his base has no desire for a ground war.

I am living in one of the strongest Brexit areas (in fact, it's the strongest Brexit region of Wales). Little Empire may not get directly mentioned but it's exactly what people are thinking of when they speak of the UK finally 'regaining influence' in the world. They want the UK to be the dominant player in the world and they think they're reclaiming that position by Brexiting. It's not that they want to be isolated from the world; it's that they want to control it.

If anything, that's part of why these people could never reconcile with the EU. It felt like a kick in the teeth to a country that once sat on top of the world. They're trying to reclaim the bum print.

edited 20th Nov '16 8:02:45 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#157048: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:58:43 AM

Irs pretty sad when our best hope is the baby boomers dying before they use their electoral power to destroy our future even further.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157049: Nov 20th 2016 at 7:58:47 AM

[up][up] Must have stung the UK Baby Boomers for Germany of all places to be the ones (apparently) calling the shots.

edited 20th Nov '16 7:59:31 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#157050: Nov 20th 2016 at 8:04:02 AM

One thing I would remind people over the Clinton emails is that many of the actions she took was based on advice she received from Colin Powell. Colin Powell himself was functioning in a similar way on the basis of how things had been done by his predecessors. It was considered a necessity for being able to function with the systems they had.

From what I've been able to find out, the US suffers the same problem the UK, and several other countries, have - government functions on antiquated equipment, even though much of the job has the potential to be very sensitive in a number of ways (market sensitive, security sensitive, diplomatically sensitive, you name it), and it is never a political priority to improve - indeed, political policies very often are diametrically opposed to the improvement of both IT systems and information handling procedures (the policies being to 'cute waste' and 'improve efficiency' which is precisely what leads to impossibly wasteful and inefficient systems and procedures in the first place).

From what I could find by researching the subject, Clinton was being made the scapegoat for a legacy issue that was based on successive short-sighted policy position by governments of any party (because of the way politics gets played). That's one of the reasons why the FBI would see nothing to prosecute - the issue is the system, not the individual.

I would expect Trump's government to be wrestling with the exact same problem for the exact same reason - and that's before we discuss the previous posts that correctly pointed out that Trump's own private business practices have a terrible IT security record, and his transition team behaviour has been even more unsecured that normal.

edited 20th Nov '16 8:08:15 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

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