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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#157001: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:08:53 AM

That is again the kind of viewpoint that got Trump elected.

No, the US founding fathers' utter distaste for democracy leading them to design a system to circumvent the popular vote for presidential elections is what got Trump elected. Secretary Clinton won the popular vote by over a million and a half votes as of current count in Cook Political report .

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157002: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:09:31 AM

I do so love counting as 1/5th an ohioan.

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#157003: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:09:38 AM

4. I don't agree with him, but the high corruption of Hillary is far too difficult for me to ignore. Just the things we know about her corruption and her general stance on important issues.

Do specify. I can't stress this enough.

The job of a politician is bound to be corrupt, especially if we're talking such giant monoliths as Democrats and Republicans. It's certain Clinton had seen some corruption, but the same could be said for all people. Including, of course, Donald Trump and his administration.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157004: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:14:11 AM

So now we're not supposed to call a racist a racist? JFC.

Trump is a racist. He's done and said things that can be considered racist since the 70's. His campaign rhetoric was chock full of xenophobic bigotry. Several of his Cabinet picks and the guy whom he invented a brand new position are blatant white supremacists. Maybe Trump's racism is more opportunistic and less ideological, but that doesn't make it not racism.

If you were willing to vote for this guy, and are still standing by him even now...well, even if you yourself aren't a racist, at the very least you're willing to excuse, condone, or pretend that Trump and his cronies' racism doesn't matter.

Yes, the people who voted for Trump may not have voted for Trump out of racism. It's still rather telling that the racism itself was not a deal-breaker for them.

As for HRC being corrupt...like others have posted here: Provide specific examples that are beyond the pale even for a seasoned politician. Note that after decades of bullshit witch hunts, even the GOP couldn't hit her with anything concrete enough to indict her.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:17:12 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157005: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:16:45 AM

Regardless of how corrupt you fear Hillary might be, that is merely extrapolation based on unconfirmed information without definitive truth values. Trump's current administration on the other hand is absolutely corrupt and nepotistic in ways that are objectively observable and indisputable to a rational observer.

Also, Trump appointed an open neo-Nazi to his administration. Thousands of our countrymen gave their lives in WWII to take down such people. It's a dishonor to them to now let such a man who shares the Nazis' beliefs into our own government, especially when he's there because of a man who disparaged veterans as weak and deserving of suffering.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:23:40 AM by AlleyOop

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157006: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:18:24 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#157007: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:18:47 AM

@Le: Like most of what I've been saying so far.

Other important issues..

Illegal Immigration. Arresting the illegal immigrants in our country is an important part of being a country, protecting your borders is fundamental. Immigration reform is great, make it easier as most things are overburdened, but I'm tired of hearing nothing but support for illegal immigrants coming here.

Obamacare. It should never have made it to print. There are actually some important things in Obamacare, like the issue of pre-existing conditions, but it should never have tried to de-privatize a private industry. The state can do that but the federal government should not.

Education. Not enough was said about this and I don't like how everything has gotten to where it is now. Debt-free college would be very expensive, and that cost will get paid somehow. As for other issues well, I really don't like the extroversion that is so emphasized in schools now. Being an introvert, I know this would have made education very difficult for me.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157008: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:19:30 AM

What's jarring is that the same people who voted against HRC because of her "corruption" don't seem to give a shit about Trump's corruption.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157009: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:21:02 AM

Public. Health. Is. Not. A. Private. Industry.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:21:40 AM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#157010: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:22:03 AM

Access to medical care should be a basic human right, not an industry.

Oh really when?
Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#157011: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:22:10 AM

Let me try an argument more likely to work.

Trump makes a habit of stiffing contractors. This isn't an accusation, it's a fact. He routinely simply stops paying the second any work done for him is completed, counting on independent contractors having neither the time nor the money to take on his lawyers to get paid.

This is not normal business. People fairly described as sharks in human suits don't do this. It's illegal, it's unethical, and it is also beyond the pale of accepted behavior even in cut-throat business environments. But Trump still does it. Routinely. Think about what that means.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#157012: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:22:14 AM

Can this thread please not get that heated (again)?

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157013: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:22:46 AM

[up]No. I reserve the right to get emotionally invested in my future existence thanks.

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#157014: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:24:20 AM

Hosptials cannot deny you care for life threatening emergencies. That is the right.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#157015: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:25:16 AM

[up][up] I get why you're mad and don't disagree but if you wanna change someone's mind as opposed to kicking them out or making them leave altogether, getting mad usually isn't a good way of doing so. It's not like they're going to listen to you when you do, so if you're upset better to vent it around people who're sympathetic than people you're arguing with.

[up][up][up][up] Exactly, regardless of what one thinks of Hillary Clinton's ethics (because these lack undeniable proof and are based on speculation) there are numerous objective accounts that allow us to know Trump has been doing the same or worse. Yet he not only gets to be a Karma Houdini, but when people push to have him punished for it, his staunchest defenders, who claim to care so much about corruption, always try to deflect it or come up with excuses for it, implicitly endorsing what are objectively criminal activities. That is a huge Double Standard.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:35:11 AM by AlleyOop

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157016: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:25:28 AM

@Stephan

Well then congratulations. You're going to get what you want on those fronts.

Undocumented immigrants? Trump is planning on getting rid of a few million immediately, a measure which will almost certainly require camps of "concentrated" groups of people. Who will probably be conveniently "disappeared".

The ACA? That's gonna vanish. Along with Medicare thanks to Paul Ryan. Maybe you don't need the cheaper health insurance, but 22 million or so Americans — a lot of whom also voted for Trump no doubt — do need it to well, LIVE.

Debt-free college? That's gone too. Trump is planning on privatizing the student loan industry. Say hello to sky rocketing interest rates and loans being denied based on choice of major! ("Art major? Yeah, we're not giving you money for that — you're not gonna be able to pay us back soon.")

Disgusted, but not surprised
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157017: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:28:34 AM

I'm just tired of coddling imbeciles who are too busy clinging to their worldviews to learn a new fact or seven and realize that the way they want the world to work is immensely harmful. If you aren't willing to learn by now /we don't need you/. get out of the way.

There is too much at stake to hand out explanatory pamphlets and hope for the best.

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
WojtekPod (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#157018: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:35:05 AM

A someone who lives in the country with available free college (free as in "paid by taxes") I remain unconvinced that debt-free college would tank the country's finances. Colleges are simply not that expensive.

ACA is in trouble because not enough people are paying for insurance, and because of the Republicans' willingness to deny access to health care to many people. "Go to ER" way is still more expensive for everyone than to cure the disease before it gets dangerous.

And guess what happens when you drown other countries or turn them into deserts? Mass migration happens. Good work, Trump voters.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157019: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:36:33 AM

I guess the GOP will finally get their chance to Kill the Poor in America.

Disgusted, but not surprised
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#157020: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:37:13 AM

@Lance: Because ignoring the moderates worked great for Hillary.

That is part of the corruption. I know Trump is corrupt, there is no denying that. But everything corrupt about Hillary gets denied. 'its not so bad.' 'Its fine.' I do not trust a shop that has to advertise itself as selling 'legal' goods. I know its not really different from the other one that is shameless, its that it tries to sell itself as perfectly good.

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#157021: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:37:46 AM

Free college for every person in the country could easily be managed with no increases to taxes anywhere by trimming off an undetectable amount of budget from our military. You know, the one we spend more on than the next seven countries combined, Half of whom are allies or major trading partners.

Hillary's problem wasn't moderates. Hillary's problem was that she couldn't get her own base to turn out. Hillary is like, all about moderates. She's a republican dressed in blue for gods sake.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:40:14 AM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157022: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:39:14 AM

[up][up] The thing about HRC's "corruption"? Nearly all of it, upon further investigation and looking at the details, is pretty innocuous. And again, nothing worth indicting her over.

Not that it mattered in the end. The GOP was very thorough when it came to demonizing her.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:40:07 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#157023: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:39:46 AM

Military budget needs to spike if anything though, especially with the recent Russian aggression and how far we're behind them in multiple areas.

Oh really when?
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#157024: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:40:11 AM

[up][up][up] That would mean coming to terms with the fact that the sun is setting on the American Empire, something which took Britain several decades to move past.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:40:21 AM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#157025: Nov 20th 2016 at 6:40:45 AM

[up][up] Which makes it a damn shame that we wasted so much money on the F-35.

edited 20th Nov '16 6:41:09 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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