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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#156926: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:09:08 AM

And what do you have to say about Trump and his collaboration with the Russian government in getting elected?

Nevermind that the FBI and the courts said no information got out and there was nothing to pursue.

Oh really when?
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156927: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:12:00 AM

Do you understand that the emails are a small example? It's about getting away with criminal conduct without a trial. Where is the justice in that.

Trump's Russian connections are troublesome, we should definitely keep focusing on what Trump is doing. But we have to also know how Trump got here, so that we can stop the next one.

edited 20th Nov '16 4:13:18 AM by StephanReiken

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#156928: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:13:52 AM

[up]Getting away with criminal conduct without a trial like Trump University, or the many rape cases against Trump you mean?

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#156929: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:16:16 AM

There was an investigation of the emails and the investigation said there wasn't enough of a problem to go to trial.

Oh really when?
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156930: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:23:28 AM

Except that in the rape cases we do not have any information on the validity of the claims and the Trump University is a civil matter isn't it? and either way was settled.

FBI Said these in the press. Quoting from https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

"Our investigation looked at whether there is evidence classified information was improperly stored or transmitted on that personal system, in violation of a federal statute making it a felony to mishandle classified information either intentionally or in a grossly negligent way, or a second statute making it a misdemeanor to knowingly remove classified information from appropriate systems or storage facilities."

"From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified” to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent."

A leads to B. I'd be in jail had I done this. Hillary wasn't even put on trial for it.

edited 20th Nov '16 4:24:04 AM by StephanReiken

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#156931: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:24:32 AM

Because the FBI said not to go to trial.

Oh really when?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#156932: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:25:31 AM

In four years Trump will have set climate change response back a decade, if we are very lucky.

In four years Trump will have replaced Scalia with someone at least as bad as him, and if you are unlucky he will replace two of the liberal judges and Kennedy.

In four years Trump is going to do irreparable harm, more than any email ever did.

[up][up]Oh ffs, Trump flat out admitted to sexual assault. Funny how you are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that while being so "principled" on the email issue.

edited 20th Nov '16 4:26:50 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#156933: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:27:23 AM

I mean, really, the issue of climate change alone should automatically make Trump unelectable.

Oh God! Natural light!
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156934: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:29:16 AM

And yet they said they investigated for negligent handling of classified information and said that occured. But their reasoning for not pursing a case would be like, dismissing a case of fatal drunk driving because clearly the person did not 'intend' to commit negligent manslaughter.

"Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past.

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here."

A crime of negligence does not have anything to do with intent.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#156935: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:30:43 AM

And it was deemed irrelevant enough to not warrant a trial or criminal action. It'd be like actually taking someone to court for jaywalking.

But if you really wanna push that we'd need to put most of the Senate and the House on trial along with most of Bush's administration and Pence for similar email servers.

edited 20th Nov '16 4:33:24 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#156936: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:31:14 AM

So fighting negligence is more important than stopping the biggest threat to humanity in history? OK.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#156937: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:31:43 AM

Wasn't the problem also, that practically every other Secretary of State did exactly the same thing? Leading to problems of legal retroactivity?

Anyway, this conversation always stinks of whataboutism. It's like fighting Russian trolls on every possible defence related website back here.

[down]

I counter with BLACK MAGIC!

edited 20th Nov '16 4:33:55 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#156938: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:32:26 AM

Look, I certainly don't agree with how Clinton handled that particular issue.

But I really don't think it matters, because the fact remains that what Trump will do as President will do far more damage that Clinton would have done.

[up] It can't be that many Secretaries of State - not all of them have had email. tongue

edited 20th Nov '16 4:33:05 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156939: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:32:46 AM

Because risking human life because its inconvenient to carry two blackberries ranks higher, including my life as I served the military.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#156940: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:40:17 AM

[up] When you say it ranks higher, what exactly do you envision it to be worse than here?

edited 20th Nov '16 4:40:27 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156941: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:41:30 AM

In this specific conversation topic we are on, the rape accusations.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#156942: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:41:46 AM

[up]And, Commander-in-Chief-Trump doesn't risk military lives with his general attitude and spoiled brat mentality?

The guy's made noises about DADT or worse coming back. That's an uptick in suicides, or I'm a melon. Then there's the risk of engagement in Iran. Which wouldn't be pretty.

edited 20th Nov '16 4:42:40 AM by Euodiachloris

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#156943: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:43:15 AM

Or by selling us and NATO out to the Russians?

Oh really when?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#156944: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:44:17 AM

Hell, if he's being literal about his proposals regarding ROE, he's risking getting his troops summarily executed. Law goes both ways.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156945: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:46:17 AM

Risking war with the no-fly zone plan in Syria was a good plan to not have to worry about re-election for Hillary, as we might be New Russia by then if there was still a planet left from the nuclear fallout.

There were no good solutions to this election because they weren't on the ballot.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#156946: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:46:21 AM

Then there's the mess he could make of procurement. If you think it's a mire of fraud now, just you wait until he starts using it as leverage...

StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156947: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:52:17 AM

He's kinda allowed to use his position for personal gain, uniquely to the president.

The biggest difference between them is I don't think Trump will get away with anything. We wouldn't know about what Clinton was getting away with until it was all over. Clintons sold Uranium to Russia somehow and that had to get a lot of approvals. So selling out to Russia is a possibility there as well. We can't know for sure, the real details never get made public.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#156948: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:52:33 AM

In this specific conversation topic we are on, the rape accusations.

Okay. Well, as bad as those are, I was more focused on the fact that Trump is a climate change denier and wants us out of the Paris Agreement, the fact that his VP is a Christian fundamentalist who has advocated for conversion therapy, the fact that his candidate for Chief Strategist is a white supremacist, the fact that his team is advocating a national registry of Muslims, the fact that he'll be picking at least one Supreme Court nominee, and the fact that both the House and the Senate are Republican-controlled, and both they and Trump are supporting a bill that will considerably push back LGBT+ rights.

Among other things.

Please, explain to me why electing Clinton would be worse than the possibility of any of this happening. Hell, just explain to me why she'd be worse than the climate change stuff.

edited 20th Nov '16 4:54:10 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#156949: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:53:30 AM

Hell no he's not allowed to use his position for his personal gain.

And is Clinton going to sell us out to the Russians or go to war with them? It can't be both.

Oh really when?
StephanReiken Since: May, 2010
#156950: Nov 20th 2016 at 4:55:07 AM

Because in all cases with Trump we still have a country in 4 years.

@Le: Its a matter of fact. The President is allowed to make decisions that would personally benefit him because originally it was viewed that the President could not be so burdened as other public offices are. He only can't accept bribes from foreign states.

edited 20th Nov '16 4:57:01 AM by StephanReiken


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