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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#156676: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:40:29 PM

Yeah, Sanders brought up that the Democrats were so concerned with getting the liberal elite on their side, they forgot the rest of the population, the common people.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#156677: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:44:35 PM

So what's the solution to inverted totalitarianism given that the Republicans control the means of dispensing propaganda, material goods, and education?

edited 18th Nov '16 1:44:47 PM by AlleyOop

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156678: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:45:40 PM

[up] I honestly don't know, and my greatest fear is that it's already too late to stop what's been set in motion. Stopping attempts to further "rig" the game in favor of the GOP has to take top priority, above even the social issues we hold near and dear, because if the electoral process is corrupted to the point where its untenable for the opposition party (the democrats), there are very few options other than violent revolution or military coup, and that's very unlikely to end well, even in the best case scenario of a generals coup by pro-democracy factions.

edited 18th Nov '16 1:52:00 PM by CaptainCapsase

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#156679: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:53:22 PM

Seriously, quit peddling that lie that marijuana is dangerous.

Quit peddling the lie that it's not. Seriously, this is the thing that drives me crazy about marijuana advocates—they always want to pretend that there's no danger whatsoever to using the stuff. This is a crock. It would be like claiming that alcohol isn't dangerous when, in reality, it very much is.

My father was crippled for life when some jackass drove while stoned and crashed into his car. I watched a bunch of the people I ran with in second year university become emotionally and psychologically dependent on marijuana to the point where they could not function anymore—one of them wound up melting down and is in a mental ward now. I have a cousin I never see anymore because she can no longer sleep, or otherwise get through the day without being high, and I'm allergic to the damn smell.

Don't tell me marijuana has no dangers associated with it. Don't tell me it doesn't ruin lives. Don't tell me there aren't a whole lot of people in the world who'd be better off if nobody used it. That's flat out wrong.

Now, if you want to say that everything I just said is also true of alcohol, that's entirely fair. That's why I'm in favour of legalization—we can't have one potentially deadly mind-altering substance be legal and another that's not notably worse be illegal. That, right there, is your argument for legalization and it's a perfectly good argument. But don't pretend it's harmless. It's not, and the notion that it is plays a big role in helping people get in trouble with the stuff.

edited 18th Nov '16 1:54:04 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#156680: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:54:57 PM

The scariest thing about an armed revolution that if the Democrats win it would be all too easy for them to become their own kind of authoritarian too, in the name of preventing the Republicans from coming back to power. For the most part their current makeup has more scruples than the Republicans, just because the Republicans have so often voted against their very principles while the Democrats have at least stuck somewhat true to what they preach, whether people agree with it or not, but I really don't want another Venezuela or what have you.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#156681: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:56:20 PM

[up]We're not going to have an armed revolution. I don't think any of us have it in us. I mean, I have a decent arsenal in the basement but I don't think I could ever use it on another person—and I'm not even in the States anyway.

edited 18th Nov '16 1:57:41 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Yinyang107 from the True North (Decatroper) Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
#156682: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:58:46 PM

There's some The Protomen lyrics that are surprisingly appropriate to HRC's defeat, if you flip the gender and replace "died" with "ran for president."

He fought the darkness, the darkness won.

And he fought bravely, and he died bravely

But he was forsaken by the ones he wished to save.

And when he died he died in vain.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156683: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:01:14 PM

[up][up] Certainly not in the near future, but what if the worst should come to pass? What if Trump successfully transitions America from the soft, proto-oligarchy it is now where it's difficult, but not impossible for someone to win who runs against the system into a hard-oligarchy like Russia, where even if by some miracle an opposition candidate managed to beat Putin in a presidential race, the election results wouldn't be accepted?

edited 18th Nov '16 2:01:58 PM by CaptainCapsase

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#156684: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:01:40 PM

There isnt likely to be a revolution outside a military coup, it might be the only light at the end of the tunnel though for America. That is par for the course in a kleptocracy though.

But that doesn't help the fact that we are right now screwing over millions of our best allies in Europe in the meantime.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:02:32 PM by Memers

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#156685: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:02:00 PM

It's a grim thought, but I do think there is a frighteningly possible point in the future where armed revolution might actually become preferable - even necessary. In the event that the United States really does abandon all pretense and turn full Nazi, then violent revolution would be pretty much the only card left in the deck. Hopefully with the assistance of the military, otherwise it would be a very short revolution. (Or guerilla warfare and underground resistance, more likely.)

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#156686: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:05:23 PM

Don't know if anybody saw Glenn Beck on CNN the other night, by the way (I'd post a link but the only one I could find was from some alt-right white supremacist You Tube channel holding him up as a race traitor). He went on Anderson Cooper's show and once again denounced Steve Bannon and the alt-right movement. My respect for him continues to grow, a fact I find very depressing.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#156687: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:06:09 PM

A leftist revolution in the U.S. is utterly absurd for the same reasons that a right-wing revolution is absurd: unless the military actively joined such a revolt, it would die screaming and bloody and leave the country in a right mess. I don't care how many guns you have stashed in your basement; you can't beat a modern military.

And this meme about Democratic complicity in Iraq needs to sit down and shut up. It's been firmly established that the whole thing was a propaganda snow job orchestrated by Cheney's insiders. If some Democrats were, perhaps, a bit overeager to join into the call to arms, that's a problem, to be sure, but if you make that a litmus test for someone's acceptability as a world leader, you've erased an enormous list of people. It's inane.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:08:21 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#156688: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:06:43 PM

Violent revolution is a heavy absolute last resort and basically the nuclear option. Don't entertain it too much, unless you somehow get off to the idea of people dying.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156689: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:07:05 PM

[up][up] It's absurd today, but will it still be in 20 years if current trends towards right-wing authoritarianism continue? Please don't fall into the trap of assuming Trump will be a normal Republican president, or that "surely GOP lawmakers will say enough is enough."

[up] What absolutely needs to happen in the near future is that the GOP leaders in congress and elsewhere needs to grow a spine and show Trump there are lines even they won't cross. So yeah, the fate of the Republic is in the hands of people like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell

edited 18th Nov '16 2:09:40 PM by CaptainCapsase

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#156690: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:10:02 PM

The GOP grow a spine? Hahaha... Not going to happen unless something bad enough comes around that they could get away with it, and by that time he would likely be impeached.

The ship is going into a brick wall and we will likely be taking the world down with it.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:10:57 PM by Memers

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#156691: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:10:18 PM

[up][up]You're talking about a country so devolved that it's no longer a democracy even by the most liberal interpretation of that term. The riots and revolts in such a country would be organic, they would largely involve passive resistance — obstructing rather than destroying — and they would still be fucking doomed to failure unless a powerful agent stepped in. But at that point, the military would have to have been compromised too, or they would refuse to commit mass murder against civilians.

The idea that everyone would take to the streets in a noble revolution to cast off the oppressors is purest fantasy.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:10:55 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156692: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:11:32 PM

[up] All successful revolutions are already more or less by definition backed by (at a minimum) significant factions of a country's military unless they occur in a situation where civil society has completely collapsed, so I don't think we're disagreeing. The only real distinction between a revolution and a coup is that a coup is something the military does on its own initiative, while a revolution is something that one way or another attracts factions of the military to its cause.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:15:19 PM by CaptainCapsase

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#156693: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:13:31 PM

Yeah the only way a revolution would happen is if at least 1/4th of the military came with and then its civil war and if that happened... well I would say at least 1 US city would be on the bad end of a nuke to keep the rest in line, considering what happened the last Civil War.

But by then we would have basically doomed the world anyway. As it is... fucking NATO...

edited 18th Nov '16 2:16:15 PM by Memers

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#156694: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:15:02 PM

Riiiight, because our wars with Japan and Vietnam have demonstrated that our military is above killing civilians.... No, if the government goes full fascist, the military goes with it.

[up]Do not be so proud of the technological terror you have created. The power to nuke a city is insignificant compared to...

oh wait.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:15:57 PM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156695: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:17:16 PM

[up] Soldiers are generally more comfortable with killing foreign civilians versus civilians of their own country. Which is where mercenaries come in, and fun fact, the US and the UK never agreed to the international treaties banning mercenaries.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:17:45 PM by CaptainCapsase

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#156696: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:17:30 PM

If the experience in my country tell me something, is that Trump would be the GOP worst enemy, he will make and ass of himself and now is outsider status is staring to wear off, once people see is becoming the Swamp king the soport will go, fast.

By worry is the damage it will do to the process, as the "feels over fact" become more common, more media clowns will have is try to become president and they will go close by sheer virtue of "I feel I should chose him"

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#156697: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:19:52 PM

[up][up] In otherwords the PM Cs we employ around the world as 'suppression forces' will get used to suppress the American people.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:23:16 PM by Memers

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#156698: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:22:47 PM

The US isn't allowed to use Mercs in combat though, according to a friend of mine. He says his company was only really allowed to scout terrain for the Marines, before the Marines came in and did all the actual shooting.

Also, Republican Rhetoric is all about how to discriminate among fellow citizens.

"The Gays", "The Blacks", "The Muslims", etc etc.

I get the feeling it's not hard to teach the military to hate, and to desensitize them to shoot at "undesirables" or "traitors".

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156699: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:24:41 PM

[up] I understand that to be merely a matter of military policy which could be changed without even having to consult congress. I'm not sure I'm correct about that though.

But enough about the worst case scenario. In the short term, we desperately need to keep the filibuster intact, and really need to get GOP lawmakers to stand up to Trump, because there's nothing else standing in his way.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:28:26 PM by CaptainCapsase

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#156700: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:28:17 PM

Contractors who use offensive force in a war zone could be considered unlawful combatants however proving that is next to impossible as its a war zone and its near impossible to distinguish between the two.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:31:38 PM by Memers


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