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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@AlleyOop: Adding to that, there's an alarmingly prevalent attitude on the left that holds any form of bigotry to be a Moral Event Horizon, which, beyond not being particularly constructive, veers into a dangerous sort of moral absolutism.
edited 18th Nov '16 9:38:48 AM by CaptainCapsase
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I, personally, am lamenting the fact that Steve Rogers and Clark Kent are fictional characters.
edited 18th Nov '16 9:39:58 AM by TrashJack
"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary![]()
I wish you (and the block of people I generalize as "Sanders Supporters", including Sanders himself) would put half as much effort into denouncing bigotry as you do into denouncing liberals for denouncing bigotry.
@Marq- That kind of sounds like wishing death on people, which is not cool Besides which, Castle would totally be a Trump supporter.
edited 18th Nov '16 9:41:01 AM by Hodor2
@Hodor: How do you figure he'd be a Trump supporter?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
x5 Well considering that Tv Tropes does a good job of weeding out the bigots we don't have to do that nearly as often here, so any example of us calling out bigots is going to happen offline and not on Tv Tropes. And I have been doing that, btw.
edited 18th Nov '16 9:45:31 AM by randomdude4
"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -BurI haven't forgotten about them, but for now I'm contemplating how to navigate Trump's presidency (if needed).
edited 18th Nov '16 9:47:22 AM by nervmeister
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I know it was Sanders, but this is also the same guy who tweets about being a member of the white working class and how it's terrible that Democrats sold out his demographic and also speaks about how he wants to work with Trump to fight corruption.
Which is why although I hope that the "three dimensional chess" theory of why Sanders talks about working with Trump is true, I think it's much more obvious that he just feels a commonaly/kinship with Trump that he doesn't feel toward Democrats who care about racial justice.
edited 18th Nov '16 9:52:39 AM by Hodor2
The thing is Hodor, I think we were never at the point where simply denouncing bigotry was going to be a workable solution to ending it.
As it stands, most of the left's understanding of social justice is functionally an ivory tower conception that has little chance of being accepted anytime soon by America at large. Or the world at large really. ESPECIALLY in an environment that's emboldened bigots everywhere.
Not that we SHOULDN'T denounce bigotry when we see it, but I don't think it's denouncing bigotry that's going to take back the country, as sad it is to say.
edited 18th Nov '16 9:52:43 AM by Draghinazzo
None of which are terrible things if they can mitigate Trump's damage and ensure future Democratic victories.
Okay, that's actually demonstratably untrue. He was in Chicago getting his ass arrested fighting for civil rights before it was the cool thing for white folks to do during his college years. Don't tell me that man doesn't care about racism.
edited 18th Nov '16 9:54:29 AM by blkwhtrbbt
Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you@Hodor2: Hodor, you do realize just about every democrat beyond Harry Reid also made such conciliatory/cautious statements about working with Trump? That's standard political speech for welcoming a new President, and ensuring peaceful transfer of power.
Sanders has since more or less said Trump had his chance and blew it after the appointment of Bannon.
edited 18th Nov '16 10:01:02 AM by CaptainCapsase
@Captain Capsase #156451, the left's tendency to excoriate bigotry is fundamentally well-intentioned and stems from a philosophical commitment to universalism that the right wing actively abjures. It is this core belief that is perhaps the single most noble quality of leftist thought, and well worth preserving.
Whether you think that's practical or not is a different question, but on the fundamental ideas I genuinely can't find fault with liberals.
edited 18th Nov '16 10:00:15 AM by Gault
yeyHillary herself said we should "give Donald Trump a chance to govern", if I'm not mistaken.
I think we're well past that point personally.
I just wish enough people realized what was going on.
In truth, I don't think it was really the virulent racism and xenophobia that led to this. I mean yes, they were big things, but you know what the nail in the coffin was?
Ignorance and apathy. People who don't care about what others suffer through as long as there's a small chance that their own lives will get better, and the ignorance to not realize that they're being sold snake oil to begin with.
edited 18th Nov '16 10:01:28 AM by Draghinazzo
@Capcase
Fair enough. I just don't get why you and others on the same "ideological spectrum" so much buy into this characterization of anti-bigotry as Political Correctness Gone Mad.
It's something I see from you and others on the self-described Left. It's like you start from the premise that anti-bigotry is an elitist position, and since elitism is bad, anything that Democrats/liberals say against bigotry must be some form of elitism to be opposed. And similarly, the idea that everything from support of gay rights to presumably opposition to voter suppression can be glossed over as "identity politics".
There's something really wrong with our country when people see Democratic/liberal expressions of anti-bigotry as a bridge too far but are totally okay with Donald Trump supporting white-supremacy and appointing a bunch of white supremacists to high positions.
edited 18th Nov '16 10:07:05 AM by Hodor2

<reads all the Trump shit that has been announced> ... At this point, I lament the fact that Frank Castle is just a fictional character.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.