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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156326: Nov 17th 2016 at 10:54:59 PM

[up] Abandoning Howard Dean's Fifty-State Strategy was a terrible idea. Thanks DWS. sad

edited 17th Nov '16 10:55:38 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#156327: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:21:24 PM

Therefore you have to appeal to these people with a different kind of language.

I get that, that's why I said "we still have to appeal to them though and that appeal will probably include not strait up calling them racist.".

I get not calling them racist because we don't have the time needed to explain the kind of racism I'm talking about, but while we're inside the ivory tower (which we very much are here) let's at least acknowledge to ourselves that they were racist.

[up] I'll second that, they need that strategy in place for 2018 to, lots of open gubernatorial seats coming up.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156328: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:30:11 PM

[up] That said, we don't want to end up implementing our own version of the Southern Strategy. Normalizing bigotry won't lead anywhere good.

A huge part of the problem is that the Rust Belt communities are not particularly diverse and don't actually have much first-hand experience with actual immigrants. Of course they're going to have trouble sympathizing or even acknowledging the objectively worse problems a lot of minorities will have to endure under Trump's administration — most of them could probably count the number of non-white, LGBT people they have met in their lifetimes with the fingers of one hand.

edited 17th Nov '16 11:32:52 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#156329: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:33:40 PM

Sure but that's why the focus isn't on the racism, if the Dems were going to normalise blatant racism they'd appeal to people on those grounds, instead what's being argued is that they appeal to the uncaring bigoted by appealing to their non-racist self interest.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156330: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:36:22 PM

[up] Hopefully they can pull it off without also alienating any minorities who felt slighted by the Rust Belt voters' apparent lack of compassion.

It's going to be tough. The Democrats can't — and should not — do what Trump did: promise to bring back jobs that are never coming back. They're gonna have to wean those communities off of coal and steel and instead give them new options for their childrens' future. Tough Love is a tough sell.

edited 17th Nov '16 11:40:26 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#156331: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:42:25 PM

[up][up][up] We don't have to worry about that, Sanders is seen as the now de-facto leader of the economic progressive wing and he's made it clear that the Democrats aren't going to steer away from that. Besides, the Democrats don't have anything to gain by doing something the Republicans are already better at.

[up]Again, it might be a good strategy to suggest hiring them for renewable energy services. Exchange coal for solar panels, things like that.

edited 17th Nov '16 11:44:50 PM by AlleyOop

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156332: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:46:54 PM

Ultimately, the challenge of winning over the Rust Belt voters is finding a delicate way to say: "Yeah, coal and steel? There is no future there for you. You're going to need to figure out something else to do with your lives, and so will your children. We've got a few ideas if you're interested."

[up] The fight is against two powerful emotions: nostalgia ("King" Coal) and the fear of change.

edited 17th Nov '16 11:48:23 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#156333: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:52:47 PM

Point out that working in coal mines is dangerous and that the Republican-backed corporations have replaced many of them with automation anyway because of it, without telling them. Meanwhile there's lots of demand for "clean" energy and that if they switch over it'll create more and longer-lasting jobs. Construction of renewable energy factories, jobs installing them on houses once they're made, jobs working inside the factories, so on.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156334: Nov 17th 2016 at 11:56:26 PM

[up] Let's just hope that's enough to get over the whole "King Coal" mindset.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#156335: Nov 18th 2016 at 12:32:50 AM

So someone posted this somewhere else

TIL there's a version of "The Tortoise and the Hare" where everyone dies in a forest fire because the tortoise, having won the race and therefore seen as the fastest, is given the job of warning everyone.

"There the hare realises the stupidity of the challenge and refuses to proceed any further. The obstinate tortoise continues to the finishing line and is proclaimed the swiftest by his backers. But, continues Dunsany, "the reason that this version of the race is not widely known is that very few of those that witnessed it survived the great forest-fire that happened shortly after. It came up over the weald by night with a great wind. The Hare and the Tortoise and a very few of the beasts saw it far off from a high bare hill that was at the edge of the trees, and they hurriedly called a meeting to decide what messenger they should send to warn the beasts in the forest. They sent the Tortoise."

a story about an underqualified victor leading to disaster? I'm still waiting to see how that one plays out.

[lol][lol][lol]

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#156336: Nov 18th 2016 at 12:37:31 AM

And it is a real story, written by this guy.

edited 18th Nov '16 12:37:49 AM by Eschaton

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156337: Nov 18th 2016 at 12:48:52 AM

[up][up] The underqualified winner leading us to death by forest fire has a bit of extra meaning for me, seeing as how I'm from California...

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#156338: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:32:08 AM

[up][up]

But when there was nearly war among the citizens of America, at last an arrangement was come to and it was decided that Hillary and the Trump should run in a presidential general election so that all should see who should lead.

"Ridiculous nonsense!" said Hillary, and it was all her backers could do to get her to take it seriously.

"The contest is most welcome to me," said Trump, "I shall not shirk it."

O, how his backers cheered.

Feeling ran high on the day of the race; the Trump supporters rushed at the Libterals and nearly beat them. Both sides spoke loudly of the approaching victory up to the very moment of the race.

"I am absolutely confident of success," said Trump. But Hillary said nothing, she looked cross and and the news wouldn't stop talking about her email scandals. Some of her supporters deserted her then and went to the other side, who were loudly cheering Trump's inspiriting words. But many remained with the Hillary. "We shall not be disappointed in her," they said. "A woman with so many qualifications is bound to win."

"Make America Great Again," said the supporters of the Trumps.

And "Make America Great Again" became a kind of catch-phrase which everybody repeated to one another. "Build a wall! That's what the country wants. Deport the illegals," they said. And these words were never uttered but multitudes cheered from their hearts.

Then they were off, and suddenly there was a hush.

Hillary got ahead by about 10 points, then she looked round to see where her rival was.

"It is rather absurd," he said, "to race with Trump." And she sat down and scratched herself. "Make America Great Again! Make America Great Again!" shouted some.

"I'm with her," shouted others. And "I'm with her" became a catch-phrase too.

And after a while her rival drew near to her.

"There comes that damned Trump," said Hillary, and she got up and ran as hard as could be so that she should not let Trump beat him.

"Those qualifications will win it for her," said his friends. "Those qualifications will win it for her; and establish upon an incontestable footing the truth of what we have said." And some of them turned to the backers of the Trump and said: "What about your fascist now?"

"Make America Great Again," they replied. "Make America Great."

Hillary ran on for 4 months and nearly in fact as far as the winning-post, when it suddenly struck her what a fool she looked running races with Trump who was nowhere in sight, and she sat down again and scratched.

"Make America Great Again. Make America Great" said the crowd, and "I'm with her."

"Whatever is the use of it?" said the Hillary, and this time she stopped for good. Some say she slept and then Comey came and opened the email investigations again.

There was desperate excitement for an hour or two, and then Trump won.

"Make America Great Again. Make America Great ," shouted his backers. "Making America Great: that's what has done it." And then they asked Trump what his achievement signified, and he went and asked the Gingrich . And the Gingrich said, "It is a glorious victory for the forces of liberty." And then Trump repeated it to his friends. And all the white nationalists said nothing else for years. And even to this day, "a glorious victory for the forces of liberty" is a catch-phrase in the White House.

Literally the presidential race. I just replaced the Hare with Hillary, the Tortoise with Trump and the Turtle with Gringrich.

And made some minor tweaks to the wording.

edited 18th Nov '16 1:34:54 AM by MadSkillz

RisingStar Since: Nov, 2016
#156339: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:49:23 AM

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/16/the-gop-s-anti-lgbt-anti-women-religious-freedom-law-on-steroids.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Farticles+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Latest+Articles%29

I don't know if this has been posted before or not, but it's really, really critical that everybody who can hound their public officials over this and other bills like it.

Summary: It's a national version of the 'Religious Freedom Restoration Act,' a bill that exempts businesses and individuals who want to discriminate against LGBTQA+ and other minorities from any action or reprimand as long as they can cite a 'religious or moral' objection to not discriminating, only now it's nationwide and beefed up to final boss level.

edited 18th Nov '16 2:08:13 AM by RisingStar

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#156340: Nov 18th 2016 at 1:54:04 AM

I have a confession.

My little cousin was hit by a car earlier this summer. Broke her leg. She's such a sweet girl as well. The person driving the car was an illegal immigrant. So, I kinda have developed a grudge against illegal immigrants. I mean, she's such a sweet girl, and she broke her leg thanks to an illegal immigrant.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156341: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:07:56 AM

[up] Imagine how irrational someone would have to be to harbor virulent hatred for undocumented immigrants wihout ever meeting one in their entire lives.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#156342: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:11:24 AM

@vampire If he was white would you have developed a grudge against white people?

Ivanka sat in the meeting with the Japanese prime minister.

How is this okay?

edited 18th Nov '16 2:11:38 AM by MadSkillz

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156343: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:14:52 AM

[up] IOKIYAR

Disgusted, but not surprised
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#156344: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:15:46 AM

For that matter, if he wore glasses, would you then hold a grudge against people with glasses?

A single undocumented immigrant hurt your cousin. Don't hold that lone transgression against every undocumented immigrant in the country.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#156345: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:44:48 AM

Kanye West just admitted that not only did he not vote, but that if he did, it would've been for Trump.

And still wants to run in 2020.

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156346: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:47:23 AM

[up]So he plans to run against the guy he claims he would have supported if he hadn't been too lazy to vote?

...(why is there no facepalming emoticon).

edited 18th Nov '16 2:47:37 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#156347: Nov 18th 2016 at 2:50:38 AM

I think the latest Steven Universe episode is very relevant, and extremely important to the current political climate.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#156348: Nov 18th 2016 at 3:14:58 AM

The GOP's Anti-LGBT, Anti-Women "Religious Freedom" Law On Steroids. It has the support of the House, the Senate, and the P*ssy-Grabber-In-Chief, and if it's passed it would give businesses, hospitals, universities and governments carte blanche to brutally discriminate against women, LGBT+ people, and more, completely free of consequence.

Overall, FADA makes LGBTs officially second-class citizens of the United States - more like those in anti-gay countries like Putin's Russia. We may be fired, barred from entry, denied services, denied health care, denied education, and denied legitimacy in ways that straight married people (and probably most straight unmarried people) do not. My fully legal marriage isn't worth the paper it's printed on, because no one anywhere has to respect it, not even a government employee.

As you can see, FADA effectively overturns Obergefell without anyone having to file a lawsuit, because it creates a loophole as large as the right to marry itself. Any governor, mayor, or clerk could proffer a "moral objection" to same-sex marriage, and stop all employees under his or her authority from registering gay couples or certifying gay weddings. And even absent such action, any employer or business can act as though the marriage simply does not exist.

But FADA goes much further than marriage. It attacks unmarried women, who may be denied health care by state hospitals, employers, and insurance companies. It makes it impossible for the federal government to do anything in a host of discriminatory situations. It turns back the clock not just two years, to before Obergefell, but twenty years, to a time when simply being gay was criminal.

And it has the support of the House, the Senate, and the President-Elect.

edited 18th Nov '16 3:15:28 AM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#156349: Nov 18th 2016 at 3:20:04 AM

Well, great. This is going to be my state all over again.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156350: Nov 18th 2016 at 3:34:26 AM

[up][up] ...WTH happened to America? Oh yeah, Trump.

edited 18th Nov '16 3:35:16 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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