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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#156126: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:40:33 AM

I don't think the environmental racism angle would work against Sanders. One, that episode is old and very obscure, unlike the Clinton "scandals" which people have obsessed on for decades. And Hillary was hammered over well-known things, not idea why they would go for something that unknown. Finally, the poll data do say that Sanders would have received a substantial minority vote - that's the only reason the polls saying he'd outperform Hillary exist after all. Nay, I think the "socialist" angle would be played up much more prominently.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#156127: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:44:19 AM

Agreed. Socialism is still a red flag for a lot of rural Americans and even older urban Americans, especially minorities who emigrated from countries that leaned USSR during the Cold War.

We should make it a policy going forward that if a primary ends in anything but a landslide victory, the runner-up should be selected as running mate in order to combine their voters rather than pit them against each other. Despite his support in her campaign, the decision to snub him from running-mate and consequentially alienate his voter-base ultimately cost us the election.

It's not a bad rule of thumb but that can easily bite itself in the ass if it's codified as actual policy if they're from mutually conflicting factions. Remember John Adams and his VP Thomas Jefferson. Basically it's sounding like the DNC infrastructure itself is in need of savvier and often younger people who are more connected with modern trends. People like Obama, who I'm not sure can run in an official position but ought to have a key advisorial role in the direction of the Democratic Party.

edited 17th Nov '16 8:51:18 AM by AlleyOop

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#156128: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:45:25 AM

I think it might be possible Sanders could write a lot of those damning things against him off as him being young and foolish. A lot of it is standard for people of his leanings.

edited 17th Nov '16 8:46:15 AM by Elle

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156129: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:46:25 AM

@Tobias: Believe what you want. The same "conventional wisdom" you're using suggests Trump would lose in a landslide, and since that didn't happen, I think we can safely say that several assumptions inherit in that conventional wisdom didn't hold for the 2016 election, and I don't think you can conclusively say that would have been unique to Trump.

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#156130: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:51:52 AM

If anything, the fact that Donald Trump could win the presidency with an image of no-holds-barred racism, xenophobia, bigotry, misogyny, and religious fundamentalism means that no dream is now too wicked for reality.

It's an ironic but bittersweet Hope Spot all by itself.

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#156131: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:52:23 AM

@Elle: I agree, the kernel of truth is why I started trusting conspiracy sites. They presented obscure truth, portrayed themselves as people digging up the truth and bringing it to you, so you were more informed. And they mixed it in with total crap. I ended up believing not only the truths but the total crap.

I'm now seeing my little brother go down a similar path in the manosphere. They do bring up some legit truths, but it's mixed in with lots of toxic sludge.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156132: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:53:05 AM

[up][up] I still can't believe millions were willing to vote for the above. sad

edited 17th Nov '16 8:53:14 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#156133: Nov 17th 2016 at 8:55:00 AM

More like they were complicit in it or just didn't take those parts seriously.

At the risk of exhausting the comparisons, it's already been pointed out that many people didn't think Hitler was serious about the antisemitism either.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#156134: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:04:37 AM

You know, speaking of that whole Cold War fear of socialism thing, it's pretty significant that the Democrats just chose to have their cake and eat it too by creating an 'unofficial' party position for Sanders. This could be a first open step in reclaiming the idea of socialism no longer being a dirty word that enables people to shut down ideas for not being 'American' enough. Sanders' continued refusal to become a Democrat also throws a bone to enthusiasts of people sick of the two-party system who would like to see third parties become more viable, even if they only do so by cooperating with the big two.

A party firmly united behind a combination of Clinton's horse-trading, Sanders' populism and Obama's charisma is probably strong enough to resist anything short of revolution-inspiring gerrymandering, come 2020. The system can be rigged pretty damn far, but not infinitely.

Edit for sake of consolidation: Democrats are rallying around their hatred of a lot of Trump's social platforms and anti-environmentalism, but what offends me the most about him, personally, often goes unsaid: his raw lack of experience. The man has never held a single public office. Anyone in this thread is equally qualified to be president of the USA as Donald Trump! If that doesn't convince you that something about our nation is screwed up on a fundamental level, nothing will.

edited 17th Nov '16 9:10:58 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#156135: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:07:44 AM

This is part of the reason why the "Bernie or Bust" types bother me so much. If they actually gave a damn, they'd have realized that Sanders would have had a lot more influence in a Democratic government than in a Republican one. But no, they're just here for generic, anti-status quo 'change,' regardless of what that might actually mean.

edited 17th Nov '16 9:10:31 AM by Pseudopartition

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156136: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:08:56 AM

[up] Some people just want to watch the world burn. Or at least, the "establishment".

edited 17th Nov '16 9:09:26 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#156137: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:11:12 AM

[up] I'd argue it's the best thing to take from this election, odd as it is. Donald Trump basically means the status quo is dead, for better or for worse. He may fill the swamp with the The Real Life version of Republican establishment, but ultimately it's not something sustainable. From here on out both sides are going to wage extreme war, and it will be amazingly destructive and I can't fucking wait.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156138: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:11:25 AM

[up][up] And those sort of people represent the bulk of the population. If they do not perceive the government as fulfilling their needs and listening to their concerns, they will latch on to someone they feel does empathize with their needs and concerns.

edited 17th Nov '16 9:12:52 AM by CaptainCapsase

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#156139: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:12:05 AM

LA Times Trail Guide: Want to keep fake news out of your newsfeed? College professor creates list of sites to avoid This one, to be exact.

During the election, many people fell prey to fake news stories on social media — even the president-elect ended up retweeting fake statistics. A professor of communication has created a list of unreliable news sites to help people do better.

Melissa Zimdars, an assistant professor of communication at Merrimack College in Massachusetts, put together a publicly available Google doc cataloging "False, misleading, clickbait-y and satirical 'news' sources." It's been making the rounds on social media as people seek to cleanse their newsfeeds of misinformation.

Many of the sites on the list are aggregators – they take news stories from other sources and rewrite them with more inflammatory headlines and without contextual facts.

Breitbart, the "platform for the alt-right" whose chairman was just named Trump's chief strategist, is on there, as is Info Wars. Alex Jones, who runs Info Wars, said Trump personally called to thank him for helping him win the election.

The list also includes outright satirical sites like The Onion and less well-known ones like Christwire.org and Daily Currant, as well as some of the hyperpartisan Facebook pages notorious for sharing exaggerated, misleading, or outright false news, including Occupy Democrats and Addicting Info. (A Buzz Feed investigation last month found some fake news sites are seeded by Macedonian teenagers looking to make quick money off ads.)

Odd domain names generally equal odd and rarely truthful news. - Professor Melissa Zimdars

"Not all of these sources are always or inherently problematic, neither are all of them fake or false," Zimdars notes in the document. "... They should be considered in conjunction with other news/info sources due to their tendency to rely on clickbait headlines or Facebook descriptions, etc."

Farther down, she gives tips for how people can identify potentially fake news. Things like strange domain names, unusual domain extensions, and using ALL CAPS should be warning signs. And make sure to look for who else is reporting the news: "Sometimes lack of coverage is the result of corporate media bias and other factors, but there should typically be more than one source reporting on a topic or event."

Both Facebook and Google have recently announced they will take steps to block fake news sites from accessing their advertising services.

UPDATE, 10:03 p.m.: The list was updated by its creator after this post was published. We have updated the image on the story to reflect the more recent version.

There are a lot of Internet Conservatives That Are Totes Liberal up in arms about this. I wonder why?

edited 17th Nov '16 9:12:56 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156140: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:24:35 AM

@Karkadinn

Yeah, I find myself increasingly upset by his refusal to learn how to do the job or take it remotely seriously.

He doesn't respect the post.

He doesn't respect the U.S.A.

He doesn't respect the American people.

edited 17th Nov '16 9:29:21 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#156141: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:30:07 AM

With Trump Using Tower As Base, Fifth Avenue Grinds To A Halt

With the news getting more and more batshit insane since "President-Elect" Trump's "victory", I think we need a new American National Anthem:

EDIT: [down][down] You're right. It's more of a Ben Carson theme.

edited 17th Nov '16 9:41:18 AM by Shippudentimes

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#156142: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:32:38 AM

[up]Instead of "Hail to the Chief" they should play "Send in the Clowns."

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#156143: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:33:27 AM

[up][up] I think this is more appropriate:

edited 17th Nov '16 9:37:01 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#156144: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:39:32 AM

Storify: How Fascism accumulates power by testing people.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#156145: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:50:27 AM

[up][up][up]Don't drag a perfectly good Sondheim song into this. :P (Also, there's nothing anthem-like at all and no relevance except for the title, it's a dirge about lost love and missed opportunities.)

edited 17th Nov '16 9:52:24 AM by Elle

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#156146: Nov 17th 2016 at 9:50:52 AM

It's pretty fucked up when I see actual Russian Jews who left their home country because of not just socialism but also anti-Semitism saying that Trump should be given a chance and that he and even Steve Bannon don't mean it because they've been so thoroughly brainwashed by the Republican party.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#156147: Nov 17th 2016 at 10:15:59 AM

For every Hitler there's a dozen right wing populists that didn't (or couldn't) go nearly as far. We should be very, very cautious about Trump and Bannon, but he is not yet "literally Hitler".

We should do everything we can to prevent him from consolidating executive power, oppose him where possible, but steer clear of outright obstructionism unless there is literally no other options available, as that will only further complicate the dysfunction of the American political system.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#156148: Nov 17th 2016 at 10:35:02 AM

Yeah, Trump becoming 'literally Hitler' is exactly the thing people are working so hard to prevent.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#156149: Nov 17th 2016 at 10:36:57 AM

It's important not to panic too hard, either.

We have the benefit of historical hindsight. The fact that we've seen what stuff like this might lead to means that we can do what's in our power, however little it is, to prevent it.

...unfortunately as someone who isn't a US citizen, I can do even less.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#156150: Nov 17th 2016 at 10:42:35 AM

I don't think the environmental racism angle would work against Sanders. One, that episode is old and very obscure, unlike the Clinton "scandals" which people have obsessed on for decades. And Hillary was hammered over well-known things, not idea why they would go for something that unknown. Finally, the poll data do say that Sanders would have received a substantial minority vote - that's the only reason the polls saying he'd outperform Hillary exist after all. Nay, I think the "socialist" angle would be played up much more prominently.

The polls also said Hillary was guaranteed a landslide over Trump, who was a joke of a candidate with a snowball's chance in Hell.

Edit for sake of consolidation: Democrats are rallying around their hatred of a lot of Trump's social platforms and anti-environmentalism, but what offends me the most about him, personally, often goes unsaid: his raw lack of experience. The man has never held a single public office. Anyone in this thread is equally qualified to be president of the USA as Donald Trump! If that doesn't convince you that something about our nation is screwed up on a fundamental level, nothing will.

I would go so far as to say people in this thread are more qualified because many of us have actually had to work for a living and understand basic concepts like the value of a dollar.

The first job Donald Trump has ever had to put in an application and interview for was President of the United States.

With Trump Using Tower As Base, Fifth Avenue Grinds To A Halt

I honestly don't know how he's expecting to wade through the crowd of protesters that is only going to grow if he shuts down Fifth Avenue without getting shot. That's not a threat or a wish of harm, just an observation. There is a crowd of very angry people gathered around Trump Tower and he's planning to make them even angrier and then show up in a car and try to get from vehicle to the front door?

I don't know if the tower has a Helipad but he needs to install one if it doesn't. The only way Trump gets through a month of crashing at Trump Tower without someone doing something reckless and stupid is if he cancels the plan to block off Fifth Avenue and comes and goes by air. As it is, he is planning to spend a couple days per week personally attending the riot that exists in retaliation against him, specifically.

edited 17th Nov '16 10:44:09 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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