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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155801: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:02:09 AM

If it's true that the Kremlin has a hold on Trump through blackmail as some security people have theorized, well there's that too.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155802: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:02:29 AM

[up][up] At the very least, the Republican congress and the American military establishment will (hopefully) put a check on things going too far.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:02:39 AM by CaptainCapsase

InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#155803: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:02:44 AM

You know, Russia is a pretty fucking bad place, but from a purely political perspective it couldn't hurt to get a better relationship with Russia. On one hand, Russia is definitely going to throw around its proverbial big stick to boss around the less powerful nations near it as it has been as of late, on the other it would be nice to not be constantly butting heads with Putin on every issue. Now it's China that hates us. And as much as I want to say that the US should be protecting democracy and the good of the people across the globe... after several decades of trying that in the Middle East I'm somewhat more okay with letting other nations deal with it for once. It's no ideal, but it's the bright side to a bad situation.

I agree that we have no choice but to hope for a passable Trump presidency. Shit's going south right now, but it could still even out. And as easy as it is to hope for Trump's America to bomb harder than a mediocre slasher flick.... I live here.

[up] At this stage in the game Trump is our check against Congress.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:03:34 AM by InAnOdderWay

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155804: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:04:37 AM

[up] In regards to the insane social policies of the GOP, perhaps, though in terms of foreign policy, the GOP is very much on board with the neoconservative agenda.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#155805: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:06:24 AM

Couldn't post it immediately, but a guy on NBC made the claim that he's hearing reports of generals in the US military reading the constitution to see what powers they have in overriding the President.

Uh...holy shit.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155806: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:09:42 AM

Well, as my ex Air Force friend is eager to keep telling me, members of the military swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:09:55 AM by Elle

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#155807: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:10:06 AM

[up][up] Dear lord, if that's true, then God Help the United States.sad

edited 16th Nov '16 11:10:17 AM by DingoWalley1

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155808: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:10:34 AM

[up][up][up] That was being said on election night, and, as with many things that come out of the news, it was a "my contacts tell me" claim with no concrete source to back it up.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:10:50 AM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155809: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:12:16 AM

I don't expect the military will try anything without a cause they can defend in the resulting court martial. If they find a cause though...

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155810: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:13:31 AM

[up] Unless of course a Trump administration does something phenomenally stupid and refuses to pay the military over some stupid dispute.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#155811: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:15:25 AM

Please tell me that if the military does decide to cause a coup they can't seize direct power afterwards and can cede it back to the two main parties in a way that doesn't set a bad precedent for the future.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:21:55 AM by AlleyOop

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#155812: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:18:09 AM

Well, he's been floating Flynn as Sec Def, hasn't he? From all I've heard saying that Flynn is unpopular with most of the military establishment is the understatement of the century, even outside of his " I might or might not be a Russian turncoat" aura.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155813: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:22:50 AM

[up][up]Constitutionally or legally? No. If you're talking a real military coup though then both of those are out the window.

Legally though, both American and international law require soldiers to refuse to obey "illegal orders". There is only so far they can be bullied. And Trump trying to force such orders through might be grounds for impeachment that might even pass the Republican Congress.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:23:59 AM by Elle

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155814: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:25:31 AM

You know, I thought we could have a coup on our hands if Trump did anything too extreme, but I didn't expect our generals to already be thinking about one behind everyones' backs. That is if they are actually are. And with any luck, they aren't. (We hope.)

edited 16th Nov '16 11:26:07 AM by kkhohoho

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#155815: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:26:54 AM

How susceptible or resistant is the the US military if Trump wants to purge it and appoint lackeys?

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155816: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:29:30 AM

You've have to ask someone who's an insider, I think. But it's hard for me to see how such a thing, if it happened, would be anything but public and ugly.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155817: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:40:39 AM

It would be extremely ugly, and would forever change the relationship between the US military and civilian government. Democracy would probably be restored eventually, like it typically was in Turkey when similar coups happened, but that's a door that, once opened, couldn't be closed again.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:41:27 AM by CaptainCapsase

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#155818: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:41:48 AM

From what I can tell, while the President and the Cabinet can appoint some top-level military officials, most of the military doesn't work like that.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#155819: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:49:32 AM

Imagine what happens if Trump decides to treat the military or even the civil service the way he treated private contractors.....

I wonder if he's read enough Roman history to realize that withholding Secret Service pay is a dumb idea?tongue

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155820: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:55:41 AM

[up] I'm not sure what's worse; the inevitable pushback from those institutions, or what becomes of America if he manages to get away with it.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155821: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:56:49 AM

I was only just talking about it and I didn't want to bring it up again, but a military coup is absolutely one of the worst possible things that could happen to the US. You all want to avoid that at any cost. It would set a horrific precedent that would completely destabilize the democracy of the US for the future at large.

As Capsase said, eventually such a regime would come to an end in all likelihood, but there's no telling how long it would last, and after the fact there would always be factions of the military wanting to get back in power afterwards, and stupid people lionizing a regime that in all likelihood compromised their civil rights, all because of the lack of information that said regime fed them about their corruption and incompetence as leaders.

edited 16th Nov '16 11:59:48 AM by Draghinazzo

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#155822: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:57:56 AM

Much more likely then an outright coup would be the military refusing a bunch of illegal orders and several general recommending Congress impeach Trump.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#155823: Nov 16th 2016 at 11:58:43 AM

Imagine what happens if Trump decides to treat the military or even the civil service the way he treated private contractors.....

I wonder if he's read enough Roman history to realize that withholding Secret Service pay is a dumb idea?tongue

Why? The military has always been conservative, and according to polling it is pro-Trump.

@Thernaider: If you've been under a rock for the last six months, they freaking engaged in information warfare and cybercrime to influence our election. They're using propaganda and paid internet trolls to discredit democracies around the world and promote Putin's agendas.
You do know we do the same thing, right?

If you told a Russian that Russia deserves antipathy because they influenced our elections, he'd probably laugh in your face. For good reason.

They've been fighting a proxy war with us in Syria and keep breaking cease fires to conduct bombing raids in a city that is already one massive humanitarian crisis.
It's not a true proxy war. Neither of us are backing a side directly against each other, just backing sides against other sides while at the same time cooperating in backing the same factions and fighting the same enemies.

For the most part Russia and the USA are hitting the same targets. ISIS targets account for about half of those hit by Russian warplanes, with Al-Nusra and its allies accounting for most of the rest.

They want the sanctions we imposed on them to end
Which we should. Their actions in Ukraine are largely justified (the whole point of Euromaidan was to silence the eastern part of the country, and Crimea genuinely is pro-Russian), while the damage we've caused to their economy over it is not. Even if their actions were not justified, which I think they were, picking this hill to die on is stupid. We have no strategic interests in Ukraine and nothing to lose from letting it stay in Russia's sphere.

edited 16th Nov '16 12:07:50 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155824: Nov 16th 2016 at 12:02:27 PM

[up] Baloney. They used a false-flag operation to suborn Ukranian democracy then illegally annexed a part of it, like some two-bit imperial power from the early 20th century. Putin jails and murders his political opponents, crushes journalistic freedom, and "free elections" are a joke. Trump admires Putin because he's the kind of two-bit imperial dictator that Trump aspires to be.

edited 16th Nov '16 12:06:42 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#155825: Nov 16th 2016 at 12:13:02 PM

Bit of a sobering article about the Democrat's 2018 chances.

For the Democrats to win the majority in the 2018 midterms, they would need to maintain the 48 seats they currently have and flip three Republican seats. However, just eight Republicans will be up for re-election in two years, and most represent solidly red states. The exception is Dean Heller from Nevada—the state voted for Hillary Clinton in the presidential election, and it also elected a Democrat, Catherine Cortez Masto, to fill the seat of retiring Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid. ... Of the 25 Democratic senators up for re-election in 2018, 10 come from states where Trump won: solid red states Indiana, West Virginia, Missouri, Montana, and North Dakota, along with traditional swing states Michigan (still recorded as likely Trump until all votes are counted), Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Wisconsin—which all voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and 2012. Tim Kaine also faces re-election in Virginia, a battleground state Clinton won only narrowly on Tuesday.

The math is simple: If the electoral map stays the same colors between now and 2018, the Democrats could stand to gain just one Republican seat while losing 10 of their own, leaving them with an even smaller minority than they held when they lost their majority in the 2014 midterms.

And then there’s the House. Currently, Republicans hold a wide majority, with 239 Republican congressmen to just 192 Democrats. And with Republican gerrymandering, the Democrats could face an uphill battle trying to flip that many seats in 2018.

So I don't know if it's impossible (seems to me like there has been large flips in the House and Senate before) but the Dems really need to get their issues sorted out fast and start preparing .


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