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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155751: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:53:03 AM

[up] I never said they were completely pointless, but the idea of state sovereignty is dangerously obsolete.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155752: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:54:12 AM

That is definitely a discussion that needs to be had. On a public, national level.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155753: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:58:53 AM

“Clearly me and the Donald have issues, and I will do everything I can to help him because he will be commander in chief in dangerous times,” Graham said. “I worry about Russia.”

Almost certainly a typo, but the idea of this old man calling Trump "The Donald" like some guy on the internet is pretty funny to me.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#155754: Nov 16th 2016 at 8:03:39 AM

They are getting their agenda passed regardless of what Trump is doing. They are better in that they are less erratic than him.

edited 16th Nov '16 8:05:13 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#155755: Nov 16th 2016 at 8:06:36 AM

I never said they were completely pointless, but the idea of state sovereignty is dangerously obsolete.
You can't have it both ways like that, man. Either state government has a role to play and there are thus certain certain things the federal government should leave to the states, or else state governments are dangerously obsolete and should be abolished as independent entities.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155756: Nov 16th 2016 at 8:08:53 AM

I said state sovereignty. Not the existence of subordinate administrative jurisdictions.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#155757: Nov 16th 2016 at 8:39:42 AM

Then you're going to have to define what you mean by "state sovereignty". States obviously aren't sovereign in the same way that nations are, but if they don't have authority to impose rules on the people living and conducting business within their borders, then they might as well not exist at all.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155758: Nov 16th 2016 at 8:51:30 AM

The states' rights crew still wish to believe that the states are sovereign nations that ceded a little bit of power to some dudes in an east-coast swamp so they wouldn't have to all give up their slaves.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155759: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:14:32 AM

You know, it's darkly hilarious that Trump seems to be treating the process of the presidential transition as a new season of The Apprentice.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#155760: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:23:50 AM

What did we think a reality TV star was going to do as President? He's running it like his reality show. Because that's all he knows how to do.

"Chris? You're fired."

Nothing would make me happier if one of the victims of Trump's last-second transition changes wound up being Mike Pence. I would get so much schadenfreude out of that. He did so much for Trump, helped carry his message, presented it in a way that was less hateful, gave him an illusion of legitimacy, and at the end of the day, Trump rewards him in the only way he knows how: by not paying him his dues.

edited 16th Nov '16 9:26:13 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#155761: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:29:23 AM

It already seems like Trump's son-in-law Krushner is acting more like his second-in-command than Pence is.

edited 16th Nov '16 9:29:33 AM by nightwyrm_zero

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155762: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:30:06 AM

[up][up]"Pence? You're fired."

edited 16th Nov '16 9:30:29 AM by kkhohoho

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#155763: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:32:03 AM

The states' rights crew still wish to believe that the states are sovereign nations that ceded a little bit of power to some dudes in an east-coast swamp so they wouldn't have to all give up their slaves.
This is actually literally what happened, for a certain definition of "little". If you want to propose actual policy changes that you think should be made with regards to the balance of power between federal and state governments, then that's one thing. But all you're doing right now is saying "states are allowed to make decisions I don't agree with, which they shouldn't be".

What do you actually want to happen? What specific things would you change in federal law or the constitution in order to have the effect you want? Keeping in mind that simply saying "the federal government should be able to overrule any and all decisions made by state government" would mean that states wouldn't be allowed to do things like desegregate, allow gay marriage, raise taxes to better fund services like health care and public schools, etc etc, unless the federal government said so.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#155764: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:33:15 AM

[up]x5 That's even worse when you recall that he never won a single Emmy for that show.

edited 16th Nov '16 9:33:26 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155765: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:37:48 AM

"Pence? You're fired."

If this was in any way possible it'd be a huge weight off your shoulders lol, I agree with Tobias that the schadenfreude would be glorious.

edited 16th Nov '16 9:38:30 AM by Draghinazzo

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#155766: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:45:52 AM

Has any president ever fired his VP before their inauguration? Or after, for that matter.

Of course, if Trump ever fires Pence, the new candidates for VP would either be Krusher or Bannon....think about that.

edited 16th Nov '16 9:47:25 AM by nightwyrm_zero

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155767: Nov 16th 2016 at 9:46:45 AM

They can't "fire" Pence without an impeachment (or a forced resignation) but they can stonewall and ostricise him. That's pretty much what ended up happening to Aaron Burr (this being before he shot Hamilton). After this they figured out that having the runner up of the election be the vice president was a bad idea.

Also, any VP to replace Pence would have to be confirmed by Congress.

edited 16th Nov '16 9:50:58 AM by Elle

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155768: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:01:28 AM

So an optimistic view of how President Trump might be expected to handle American foreign policy posits that, should Donald Trump's impulsive tendencies be reigned in, we could see a sort of neo-Westphalian geopolitical order emerge where territorial status quo is regarded as the highest priority, and the internal affairs of nations are regarded as that nation's own business.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. Unlike in 1648, there's no more world left for the great powers to divide up between themselves, but whether that would be essential to that sort of detente is somewhat questionable. It would entail voluntarily ceding the United States's mantle of a global hyperpower in favor of a multipolar world order with the US as first among the great powers, so obviously neoconservatives and other hawkish factions in the US government would be vehemently opposed, though as the author points out, it's something that's compatible with the current world order and with Trump's particular brand of "America-First" populism.

edited 16th Nov '16 10:04:12 AM by CaptainCapsase

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#155769: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:11:43 AM

Of fun note, Mc Cain and the Heritage Foundation are opposing any move by Trump to soften relations with Russia.
Of course the one area where Mc Cain chooses to truly oppose Trump is the area where Trump is somewhat reasonable and Mc Cain is batshit insane.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155770: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:13:47 AM

[up] It's rather darkly hilarious seeing large chunks of the left in a strange bedfellows relationship with neoconservative war hawks. If Trump wants to try to defuse tensions with Russia, let him. It's worth a shot at least.

edited 16th Nov '16 10:14:22 AM by CaptainCapsase

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#155771: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:14:02 AM

Why are people insisting we should give Trump a chance? He's already had a week to convince us that his administration would not be a total shitshow. He has failed spectacularly at that.

Are people just going to keep lowering the bar?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#155772: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:15:56 AM

As far as foreign relations go, I'm mostly just hoping we don't invade Iran. We're really giving them a lot of reasons to get back to work on those nukes already.

Give him a chance, sure. "This guy threatened to stab me! Why did you support him?" "He might not stab you though!" "But he said he was going to and you said that was okay!" "He hasn't yet, though, right? Maybe he'll give you a hug instead." "He's actively befriending professional people-stabbers and giving them jobs as advisers." "But you don't physically have three inches of steel in your gut right now, do you?"

People are just desperate to justify the unjustifiable.

edited 16th Nov '16 10:19:36 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#155773: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:19:34 AM

[up][up] We should give Trump a chance in areas where his "policy proposals", such as they are, are not totally unacceptable. We should instead focus our political capital on where there is no room for compromise, on the numerous social issues which Trump threatens to set us back on.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#155774: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:19:52 AM

@Caspase

Weren't you the one who was furious at the USA for having supported dictatorships in the past? Yet here you are wanting them to have a working relationship with Vladimir Putin, a man who is not only a brutal dictator, but who exports violence outside of his own country and, oh yeah, tampered in the goddamn American election.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#155775: Nov 16th 2016 at 10:21:14 AM

Re: #155746

Do we really have any choice but to give him a chance and hope for the best? The only thing that would potentially keep him out of the Presidency will kill the legitimacy of whoever it benefits (Electoral revolt) or just put in a Republican who may be just as bad and knows what he's doing.


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