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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#155726: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:15:52 AM

You could argue the fugitive slave act was the domain of interstate trade, as property moved across state lines.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155727: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:17:41 AM

Ah, but see, the northern states had outlawed slavery. In their states, the institution does not exist. And therefore, any people who were slaves in teh south are not slaves in the North, meaning they cannot be property, and thus are no part of interstate commerce.

[down] Great minds

edited 16th Nov '16 7:18:56 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#155728: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:18:03 AM

The problem is that the property immediately changes its character upon crossing the state line. You could say it doesn't cross at all, because it ceases to exist as property.

[up]Ninja'd

edited 16th Nov '16 7:18:26 AM by Clarste

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#155729: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:21:43 AM

At the end of the day I think States are best employed as regional administrators. They help maintain the quality of life for Citizens within their borders, determine appropriate ways to comply with regulations, and deal with matters that are confined to their territory. Once you get into more big picture stuff like civil rights and education you have to develop some kind of standard that all citizens and municipalities are held to.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155730: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:24:02 AM

I don't even like taxation being handled at the state and local level. Do it all in one big batch and then make the allocation of funds an administrative issue between the governments in question. Are we a nation or not?

edited 16th Nov '16 7:24:09 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155731: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:24:37 AM

Re: States rights in the 10th Amendment: But there's also the 9th Amendment which reads

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

A 9th amendment defense is really hard to pull off in a legal argument but it is there.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155732: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:24:39 AM

hmmmm. That is actually entirely constitutionally justifiable. The 14th amendment enshrines the Federal government as the protector of a citizen's rights. Arguably, the 19th does as well.

[up][up] A nation is not some single type of thing, and a nation's status is not a boolean.

edited 16th Nov '16 7:25:43 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#155733: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:24:51 AM

@Kostya - You aren't wrong, but the nature of the US's creation will never allow that. None of the states (whatever their political bent) will never agree to become provinces, which is essentially what that is.

edited 16th Nov '16 7:25:12 AM by FFShinra

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155734: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:30:09 AM

Many of the states still imagine themselves as sovereign entities that have merely agreed to abide by certain common rules over the centuries. (sigh) When will we get rid of these antiquated ideas about governance?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#155735: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:30:18 AM

The professor who predicted every presidential election since 84 now predicts that Trump will be impeached.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/15/politics/allan-lichtman-professor-predicts-trump-impeachment-erin-burnett/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155736: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:34:45 AM

[up][up]Well they're not completely wrong. Historically, that's exactly what a state is. The transition from state to federal power only really started happening for real because of the Civil War.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#155737: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:37:31 AM

[up][up]By the Republicans? Well, that'd be a great way to get their man Pence in.

Then will the real shitshow start.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155738: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:38:56 AM

Sooooooo. Trump seems to be taking Obama's advice that "You don't have to talk to the press outside of press conferences" thing to heart.

And the press (specifically NBC news) is, of course, tearing into him for it, calling it an "ominous sign that the Trump admin. could be the least accessible admin. to the public and the press in modern history".

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#155739: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:39:41 AM

If that happens I have a feeling Pence won't win the election in 2020. Trump's supporters won't rally around him.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#155740: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:39:59 AM

Post impeachment attempt has always led to a flip in the White House afterwords (although Andrew Johnson is a bit of a mixed case there).

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155741: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:43:02 AM

Certainly, if the Republicans decide they want to get rid of Trump, they could do it easily- there's no shortage of scandals they could point to as justification, and what Democrat would dare vote against impeaching Trump?

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#155742: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:45:27 AM

Aren't the other Republicans who won, Pence included, worse than Trump?

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#155743: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:46:28 AM

Trump could very easily be the first American President we actually Impeach, considering I have little faith in his administration to not be filled with bigots and cronies who would love nothing more then siphon money into their pockets. Whether Trump could get away with it, or if he has to pull a Nixon (resigning then having his VP pardon him) is up for debate.

Trumps Administration will most likely be the most corrupt Administration America has had since Warren G. Harding.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#155745: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:48:42 AM

[up][up][up] Yeah, Pence is some pretty good impeachment insurance for Trump, and it's not like Paul Ryan would be a dramatic improvement if both of them were to be canned.

[up] If there's one thing that Lindsey Graham can be counted on for, it's neoconservative jingoism. Strange bedfellows, indeed.

edited 16th Nov '16 7:49:30 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#155746: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:49:28 AM

The impeachment is the trial itself. Clinton and Jackson were both impeached.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#155747: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:50:49 AM

If Trump really were to be ousted from the White House then President Pence is possibly more dangerous but also somewhat easier to predict and therefore design counters for. At least he's only somewhat less embarrassing for international optics.

edited 16th Nov '16 7:51:26 AM by AlleyOop

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155748: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:51:38 AM

I mean, now we're looking at an actual 'who's the lesser of two evils' situation, is the thing.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155749: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:51:53 AM

If that happens I have a feeling Pence won't win the election in 2020. Trump's supporters won't rally around him.

Yep. Pence is pretty much just a particularly nasty and bigoted Republican. He's not really "anti-establishment" or part of the xenophobic populism that got Trump elected. The only people who will rally around him are the religious bigots just like him. Obviously other republican voters will fall in line with him but he isn't exactly someone who will garner much enthusiasm.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#155750: Nov 16th 2016 at 7:51:59 AM

Fighteer: there's a legitimate argument for varying levels of government. Issues that affect a particular state may not affect the rest of the nation. Issues that affect a municipality may not affect the rest of the state. Government is not "one size fits all" and not everything needs to be handled at the federal level.

That doesn't mean that nothing needs to be handled at the federal level, but acting as if state governments are a pointless anachronism is taking it a bit too far.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

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