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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@ Bense, given the choice between immediate drastic change that results in upending the current order and a high risk of active disenfranchisement of the formerly privileged, or a slower but surer implementation of progress (similar to the Democrats' current approach to LGBT rights) I usually prefer the latter.
But what you're suggesting is not the latter but an overly idealistic hope that the momentum of social change carries enough inertia on its own to continue moving without input. It assumes that The Remnant will not attempt to enact a counterforce to render this change stationary if not actively regressive, when the continued existence of the KKK and the rise of the alt-right shows that's not the case. If society is to continue moving forward then people must take action.
edited 15th Nov '16 2:21:23 PM by AlleyOop
@Alley Oop
: According to this, as of 2 days ago she had 61,964,263 votes
, which would be a difference of 1,002,296 votes more than Trump. According to wiki, Rmoneynote had 60,933,504. But Bush II got 62,040,610 on his second term. Depending on the total count, she might get enough to surpass him.
edited 15th Nov '16 2:18:17 PM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVAnd everybody should accept your way because you have the power to force them to?
Also I'd note that many people would not have survived those ten years, so you'd be condeming them to death.
Plus I dispute your assumption that it would oynlt are ten years, many places in the US would simple have become akin to Saudi Arabia, Belarus and Apartheid South Africa (which is part fell due to international pressure, someone I assume you'd oppose).
As for your optimism, considering how many states still have laws criminalising homosexuality on the books I find it hard to agree with.
edited 15th Nov '16 2:19:30 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranObama ready to get back into the fight by February.
That's my fucking President
New Survey coming this weekend!Sure, but just keep in mind a lot of minorities everywhere disagree with you as well. I'm not going to make any assumptions about your race or your background, but I'll just say it's a different situation when you're part of a group being denied civil rights and you've fought against prejudice and hatred all your life.
I don't think the results of this election speak very well of the american electorate, given that they put into power a snake oil salesman demagogue with a cult of personality based on white nationalism. It's a culmination of a variety of factors, the least malicious of which are apathy and ignorance, neither of which is very flattering either.
edited 15th Nov '16 2:22:54 PM by Draghinazzo
Ten years is a long time to ask people to wait when they're being denied jobs, housing, or legal recognition. There may be people willing to give up those rights for themselves in exchange for a guarantee of permanent rights for the people who come after them, but on the eve of a presidency that's set to roll back rights for almost every disadvantaged demographic in the country, the idea of permanent rights for minorities in America is looking more like a pipe dream.
It's been fun.![]()
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Dude, come on. I'm all for nuance and recognizing the subjectivity of morality but is this really the best time?
There are a lot situations where the moral or right thing becomes complex, yes, but this isn't one of them.
edited 15th Nov '16 2:26:52 PM by Draghinazzo
edited 15th Nov '16 2:24:12 PM by Kayeka
Thanks, that's really interesting. It's not at the level of the 17 million vote gap of the 1984 elections but that was a clear uniform EC and popular vote blowout. I imagine there's only so much of a gap you can achieve to win the popular vote while having the EC votes not match.
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Wikipedia's article on the EC says this (bolded the relevant part):
So the gap is of about 66% of the vote.
edited 15th Nov '16 2:30:33 PM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVIf we want to talk about moral absolutism vs. moral relativism, there's a topic for that
.
Nervmeister, if we have to tell you one more time to cut out the concern trolling vis-a-vis moral subjectivism, then it's kaput for you. You have been warned many, many times about this.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
Yes, well, I think we've concluded that many of them will have to die of natural causes for their opposition to civil rights to fade. That's not going to change; some people are simply not persuadable with any reasonable amount of resources. We should be reaching out to the ones who are and marginalizing the ones who aren't.
edited 15th Nov '16 2:37:09 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"That doesn't really have an easy answer. You can be patient and make all the appeals to morality and their own self-interest that you want, but some people really just don't give a shit about anybody other than themselves. Indifference can be just as destructive as hatred.
Ultimately you just have to make the best argument you can and accept some people will never accept it. Older people especially, will probably not change their views.

There have been a lot of reports of harassment from plenty of other groups of people as well.
That they are happening at all says enough by itself.