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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#155426: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:35:54 PM

The idea that time is one great waterslide toward the direction of Progress is a very dangerous one to hold. It makes progress and liberal ideals sound inevitable, when really it's taken decades and decades of fighting to even get where we are now. People have had to spend their lives fighting, and then die, to shift societal outlooks forward even a little.

It's been fun.
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155427: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:36:09 PM

We just elected a man who's racist and has a team of people with mixed closet/open white supremacist viewpoints and you think Jim Crow would've eventually gotten overturned?

Okay, then.

Yeah, this election really threw a wrench in the idea of this being a post-racial society.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#155428: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:36:31 PM

If Trump were to abdicate how do you think may of the people who voted him would respond, since Pence wasn't what they had in mind when they voted?

[up]If all the birther shit and "Obama is a secret Muslim" didn't already do it then this did.

edited 15th Nov '16 1:37:28 PM by AlleyOop

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#155429: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:36:46 PM

Yes, the Secret Service can shut down Fifth Avenue if the President is on Fifth Avenue since their duty is to ensure the safety of the President. Naturally, the Secret Service and the State of New York would prefer that Trump live in the White House because the White House is actually equipped to protect the President of the United States more efficiently than any other place on this planet is.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155430: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:36:58 PM

Case in point: right now we're seeing a huge wave of reactionary xenophobia and racism across the country, best exemplified by the people who were put into power just now.

If Trump were to abdicate how do you think may of the people who voted him would respond, since Pence wasn't what they had in mind when they voted?

Hard to say since people voted for Trump for a variety of reasons. His more naive supporters more focused on economic issues would probably realize he was a fraud and become very disillusioned. The alt-right might be demoralized but consoled by the fact that there'd still be a bunch of white-supremacists in power atm.

edited 15th Nov '16 1:39:23 PM by Draghinazzo

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#155431: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:37:20 PM

They'd probably rant and rave about how a conspiracy got to him, at least the hardcore ones would anyway.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#155432: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:37:59 PM

[up]Eh, a little bit of rioting, a little bit of looting, the usual, really. But Trump wouldn't care because he's still rich and the Republicans wouldn't care because they still have the government.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#155433: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:38:20 PM

I believe the Jim Crow laws would have eventually been overturned because they were wrong.

If history taught us anything is that there is no shortage of people wanting wrong because they benefit from it or don't want anything to disturb their status quo.

Hell, in this election cycle I've seen serious arguments over removing the 19th amendment because women usually vote Democrat.

Inter arma enim silent leges
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#155434: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:39:28 PM

Bense, I'm going to assume you ignored my "might have lead" commentary and just say you've got a very sky in the pie kind of vision regarding what the state governments were doing at the time.

You're basically also saying that people should have been content to wait another ten years to finally be granted their rights to such things education and housing and voting. I'm... seriously not sure how you can think that's justifiable, asking people who are looking to be given justice to wait that goddamn long when they had already been denied such their entire lives.

Do you know the phrase "Justice delayed is justice denied"? Because that's what's you're arguing for, in spirit.

edited 15th Nov '16 1:40:07 PM by AceofSpades

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#155435: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:39:33 PM

This has not been a good year for optimism. And there are many things that will keep people from doing the right thing.

Fear. ("I am losing what I had, someone has to be to blame for it.")

Privilege ("I am fine where I am, I don't need things to change.")

Ignorance ("I don't see that this is a problem, everyone around me says this is how things are supposed to be.")

Self-righteousness ("God said this is how things are supposed to be.")

These things and more have to be fought constantly and all of them apply to some degree when it comes to things like racism and sexism. "Evil wins when good men do nothing." And if evil won't back down, sometimes you have to drag them down kicking and screaming.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#155436: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:41:21 PM

If doing wrong is easy or acceptable, then no amount of appealing to humanity's better nature will make civil rights a standardized reality. Sometimes, you need to put away the carrot and take out the stick.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155437: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:42:59 PM

Doing wrong or doing nothing is in fact very often much easier than doing the right thing, because often the right thing is difficult or uncomfortable.

Humanity often cares much more about their immediate comfort and convenience than justice.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#155438: Nov 15th 2016 at 1:47:23 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#155439: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:02:44 PM

It's a shorter commute than Bush's frequent trips to Crawford. Depends on how frequently Trump wants to do it.

Or if he'll have to set up any private servers in Trump Tower to handle the workload.

This is going to be a shitshow of epic proportions, and if it weren't for the fact that many Americans are going to suffer over this, i'd just sit back and grab some potato chips (as i don't eat popcorn).

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#155440: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:03:20 PM
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#155441: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:04:48 PM

She added that Clinton, whom she supported, is "on track to have received more votes than any other presidential candidate in history except Barack Obama."

Is this true? Especially after controlling for things like population growth. Anyway as much as I hate the Electoral College I still wonder if there can be a way to modify it as an actual barrier against populist tyranny. Though if they let Trump in then it's clearly not doing its intended job anyway and a bureaucratic waste of time.

edited 15th Nov '16 2:06:24 PM by AlleyOop

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#155442: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:05:17 PM

These things and more have to be fought constantly and all of them apply to some degree when it comes to things like racism and sexism. "Evil wins when good men do nothing." And if evil won't back down, sometimes you have to drag them down kicking and screaming.
What Is Evil?

edited 15th Nov '16 2:05:27 PM by nervmeister

Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#155443: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:09:10 PM

Yes, I would be willing to accept a 10-year delay in being granted civil rights if that delay would ensure that the grant was permanent.

Convincing your oppressors that you're right and they're wrong is as permanent as it gets.

Imposing your will on others only lasts as long as you have superior power.

edited 15th Nov '16 2:15:12 PM by Bense

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155444: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:10:54 PM

Yes, I would be willing to accept a 10-year delay in being granted civil rights if that delay would ensure that the grant was permanent.

Convincing you're oppressors that you're right and they're wrong is as permanent as it gets.

You're seriously underestimating the amount of reactionary hatred and bigotry in this country, and humanity in general. Some people (enough to matter) will never accept giving you rights.

Appeals to morality are great tools but if we were solely reliant on them we'd probably not be where we are now.

edited 15th Nov '16 2:15:01 PM by Draghinazzo

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#155445: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:11:00 PM

[up][up][up]White supremacy and the current Republican party?

Sorta obvious?

edited 15th Nov '16 2:11:34 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#155446: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:12:57 PM

[up]Not from their perspective

Doing wrong or doing nothing is in fact very often much easier than doing the right thing, because often the right thing is difficult or uncomfortable. Humanity often cares much more about their immediate comfort and convenience than justice.
So how does one overcome the very human desire for comfort, then?

edited 15th Nov '16 2:14:34 PM by nervmeister

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#155447: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:14:09 PM

This isn't exactly a good time or place to bring up moral relativity.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#155448: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:14:30 PM

[up][up]So?

Oh really when?
Bense Since: Aug, 2010
#155449: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:14:52 PM

I would also note that the FBI report of a "spike in hate crimes, especially against Muslims" being widely reported currently (especially in the New York Times) was a spike in 2015 compared to 2014, not a spike since Trump was elected.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#155450: Nov 15th 2016 at 2:15:45 PM

Do I really need to bring back that Martin Luther King quote again? Because I will.

Oh God! Natural light!

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