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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154651: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:10:37 AM

If that was true it didn't seem to do them much good because "the media" repeatedly focused on her scandals and tried to make it a "lesser of two evils" situation to milk ratings.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#154652: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:12:52 AM

Anyone who hinks the media was helping Clinton is just factually wrong. They were merciless towards her.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#154653: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:13:17 AM

Sanders is probably done as a major force in the Democratic Party if he ever was one. He greatly empowered Trump (who literally used his talking points against Hillary) and increased voter apathy, and his attempts at lobbying for leftist candidates like Feingold and Teachout were almost alll miserable failures. Doesn't help that he's already kissing up to the God Emperor. Probably because they share a lot of policy.

At the end of the day, there's no indication that the leftwad shift even further for Sanders' sake helped Clinton, and abundant evidence that it hurt her. As I said earlier, the more left leaning part of the party in general (of which Hillary was a part) has been thoroughly discredited. The Blue Dogs will dominate the next cycle as the result of being the only ones with any success in this one, and the (almost certainly correct) pereception that any one of them could have crushed Trump. Anyway, more Clinton media manipulation:

James Comey Quickly Reopens Clinton Email Investigation For Few More Minutes.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:20:06 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154654: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:15:16 AM

[up][up] Not really, she just didn't know how to play the game; Clinton only generated significant ratings when they were talking about her scandals, Trump generated massive ratings every-time he so much as blinked or shifted in his seat, so he got constant coverage.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:15:58 AM by CaptainCapsase

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154655: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:29:02 AM

Monsieur; if you think Sanders is somehow sucking up to Trump at the moment, I'm not so sure you've been paying attention since the election happened.

Also, any proof that all the Democratic candidates that won seats are, in fact, Blue Dogs would be great for that claim.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:30:16 AM by AceofSpades

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154656: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:32:17 AM

[up][up][up] And yet Harry Reid followed Sanders' and Warrens' endorsement of Keith Ellison for DNC chairman...

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#154657: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:32:26 AM

Damn, this thread moves fast.

But yeah, no, Sanders isn't done. He's just gotten started.

For starters, he's backing Keith Ellison (D-Minn) for the head of the DNC, who's gotten even more endorsements from other folks like Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154658: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:33:14 AM

The new Senators seem pretty progressive at least.

Besides, losing a few key states by razor thin margins hardly means that a party has been exiled to the political wilderness.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:33:52 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154659: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:35:25 AM

[up] It might just if Trump and co go for the nuclear option (banning the filibuster) and start enacting laws rather blatantly meant to suppress democratic voting blocs in the midwest.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:36:21 AM by CaptainCapsase

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#154660: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:37:52 AM

Monsieur;
Don't be so formal. Monsieur was my father.

(Only used that name because "Thenardier" was apparently taken...)

if you think Sanders is somehow sucking up to Trump at the moment, I'm not so sure you've been paying attention since the election happened.
His first statement after Trump was elected was to endorse some of his policies and say his election was a justified revolt against the "Establishment".

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-trump

BURLINGTON, Vt., Nov. 9 – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement Wednesday after Donald Trump was elected president of the United States:

“Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer."

“To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him.”

Literally the only thing he disagreed on was Trump being bigoted. Which isn't actual policy. He agrees with Trump's economics, such as protectionism and rejection of the opinion of actual professionals.

Also, any proof that all the Democratic candidates that won seats are, in fact, Blue Dogs would be great for that claim.
I'm using Blue Dog in the informal sense, i.e. "conservative Democrat". Do you want me to just state the positions they hold? Like I did for Bullock?

edited 13th Nov '16 11:42:46 AM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#154661: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:39:48 AM

No, it wasn't. Sanders didn't endorse any of Trump's policies at all.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:41:07 AM by higherbrainpattern

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154662: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:39:49 AM

[up][up]

That's hardly a glowing endorsement, just a fairly standard and politically conciliatory statement much like the ones given by Clinton, Obama, Warren, and pretty much every democrat with the notable exception of Harry Reid. Sanders in fact was probably one of the more cautious of the bunch outside of the Senate Minority Leader.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:44:58 AM by CaptainCapsase

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#154663: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:42:31 AM

One half of Sanders's statement is explaining why Trump won (not the same thing as approving of that or Trump) and the other is a split statement on Sanders's views on Trump's policies. One can argue that Bernie is giving too little weight to all the awfulness Trump is peddling, but nothing more.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154664: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:42:45 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]We'll see, but that's cheating/electoral suppression. Politically, the Democrats are fine. The only issue they face now is that the 2018 Senate map is not in their favor, and if Trump and friends blow it big time, they could reverse that advantage.

And the 2020 map looks very good for them, and if they win big that year in the Senate/House (I'm talking anti-Republican levels not seen since 2006 overwhelming gerrymandering) they get to redraw a lot of districts themselves.

And Trump is putting himself in an awkward position. If he sticks to his platform, he enrages moderates. If he becomes Dubya 2.0, his core base stops voting again.

And that's assuming that no personal scandals come up, and I don't think that Trump has gone 2-4 years without one in his entire adult life.

EDIT: Trump's only prayer is to keep the economy in excellent shape (slow, Obama style recovery won't be enough), and Republican policy typically doesn't do that unless coupled with favorable external factors that don't exist right now.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:44:41 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154665: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:43:50 AM

Given that Sanders said cooperation is dependent on the policies Trump pursues I'm failing to see how that's sucking up. That is basically what a lot of politicians say about any other politician, actually: "If we find a place we can agree, we'll work with you, But if we disagree, we won't". You basically contradicted your own point with that last sentence. Also, recognizing that Trump managed to tap into something going on in the public also is not an endorsement of the man. Like, that is actually pretty neutral. "He did a thing" is not actually an opinion in either direction.

And quite frankly, I don't expect the Republicans (Because Trump's not the only problem.) to not pursue economic policies that don't have massive racist connotations.

edited 13th Nov '16 11:46:12 AM by AceofSpades

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#154666: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:52:38 AM

Wikileaks may be a blatant tool for Russia now, but they still leak true things
No, they've actually been caught released doctored files, as well.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#154667: Nov 13th 2016 at 11:52:57 AM

It's kind of a cold comfort that everyone who voted against Trump will probably have reasons to shout "I told you so" to all of his supporters in the coming years.
As mad as I am at all the non-racists who supported the Ku Klux Klandidate, I am livid at the people who didn't bother to show up to the polls at all. Or worse, skipped the first set on the ballot.
there are Canadians encouraging the west coast to defect? Why not the northeast?
Because you're already Canadian.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154668: Nov 13th 2016 at 12:36:16 PM

And now team Trump is talking about repealing the ACA on day one with a special session. That's probably impossible, definitely is without the nuclear option.

But it shows that all the talk about getting a replacement in place first were BS.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/13/politics/kellyanne-conway-trump-special-session-congress/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154669: Nov 13th 2016 at 12:48:34 PM

I didn't buy Trump's rhetoric about the replacement for a second.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154670: Nov 13th 2016 at 12:51:36 PM

Nope. But at least this is going to hurt a lot of people, who will know exactly who is at fault. The GOP made repealing the ACA their mission before it was finished. And the public is going to feel it.

Ideology over politics, its not going to work in the long run.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#154672: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:02:04 PM

It's kind of hard to blame people for refraining from voting when so many of them live in areas where they KNOW their vote statistically doesn't matter. Especially in an anti-establishment environment when they're feeling disillusioned to begin with.

The Democrats have always had this enthusiasm problem. Obama hit a peak in support, but hitting that peak just meant he had further to fall when A) he watered down his healthcare reform for the sake of political enemies who gave him jack in return, B) he spent a lot of time fighting for a trade deal that Joe Citizen didn't care about, and C) he spent the rest of his time getting legislatively cockblocked. And that last one isn't his fault, of course, but I am wondering if maybe the Democrats could have done more to communicate with and educate the public on the reality of the 'do nothing' congress. Either way, it gave voters an environment where a Clinton style steady hand on the rudder didn't get them hyped.

Now that Republicans have proven that obstructionism is a winning strategy for them, the Democrats need to find a counter strategy that takes back control of the narrative when they're prevented from taking any actions to benefit their voters. They also need to stop being afraid of taking actions that will actually benefit their voters drastically enough to make them want to get out and vote. It's really hard to get excited for the idea of incremental progress, especially when you can look across the ocean and see how drastically far we're lagging behind proven models for most liberal policies.

And, of course, people need to know that they can make a huge difference with the down ticket races even if they live in an area where their vote for president doesn't mean anything. Trump is the very epitome of the sickness of viewing the president like a celebrity and ignoring every other aspect of government. We need to focus public attention on what all those other, 'less powerful' offices are actually doing to hurt or help people, and how even one vote can have a powerful impact on many of them.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#154673: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:07:36 PM

Priebus? I think I asked this before but he's considered a milquetoast isn't he? Talks a lot of bluster, but is terrible at leadership. Still this shows that Trump is 100% fine with keeping the establishment exactly as it is and stuffing the cabinet with Republican elites. So much for that.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#154674: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:09:20 PM

Priebus is an amazing example of failing up.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154675: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:09:50 PM

[up][up] Wait to see if Palin, Carson, perhaps most importantly Flynn get cabinet positions.

edited 13th Nov '16 1:09:55 PM by CaptainCapsase


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