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Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#154426: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:33:52 PM

1) Because no poor person has ever been interested in affordable education, and education has never been a thing that helps people get into well paying jobs? I'm calling bullshit on that one.
Look, I'm currently working in the food service industry in order to pay my way through university, I get what you're saying. I even took a year off to work after my first year because I was worried about being able to pay for school. What I'm trying to say is that higher education isn't always a guaranteed route to a better job, it may help everyone. Heck, it seems to be getting less and less valuable from a job market perspective as time goes on (although, I'm absolutely one of those 'learning is never wasted' types).

However, I'm finding it difficult to find statistics that support or disagree with me, maybe this is just my anxiety about being able to find decent work after school getting to me? Also, I'm getting the feeling it's going to become more difficult for people in STEM fields (especially environmental) during the Trump administration.

About affording school: here in Canada (and presumably the US) I assume you can get your schooling paid for if you're low income, but it's not a perfect system. For example, up until this year I wasn't able to apply for much in the way of assistance, because I needed my parent's tax information, which for certain reasons [[note: it's personal, I don't want to discuss the exact details with strangers on a public forum]] wasn't possible for me to get. I talked to the school administration and was told there was literally nothing I could do except wait until I was four years out of high school.

Sometimes situations like that happen, and you're stuck. I can't imagine what it's like for LGBT students that get kicked out of their homes, but I don't know if there's much that can be done in federal politics? Except not letting people like Pence get a hold of the White House, but I guess it's too late for that. sad

Also, while I don't know too much about how school funding is handled for low income students, I've seen poor American students crowdfund for the fees needed to pay for their textbooks and living expenses. This is anecdotal of course, but there still seems to be problems with the system that need to be addressed. And I now have no idea where I was going with this. Oh well.

edited 12th Nov '16 6:35:01 PM by Pseudopartition

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154427: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:35:36 PM

Has anything like that ever even happened in US history? Like a candidate being declared President-Elect but the votes finished counting and they don't have the 270 anymore?

I'm not even going to dare hope Trump isn't gonna become President, but I would be interested to see if something like that has happened before.

edited 12th Nov '16 6:37:01 PM by Draghinazzo

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#154429: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:38:22 PM

Just how wide is the popular vote right now? I imagine it would only do any good if they're all happening in swing states like Florida. If it turns out the entire states of Cali and New England voted for her to a person it wouldn't matter anyway because those states are already pledged to her.

edited 12th Nov '16 6:38:44 PM by AlleyOop

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#154430: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:40:26 PM

Some half million and growing last I checked.

Oh really when?
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#154431: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:40:46 PM

re: social media, he's more right than he will ever be conscious of.

Benedict Anderson, famous writer on nationalism and the creation of "imagined communities," was frequently asked about the developing role of the internet, and in one interview back in 1996 he doubted that the internet could ever get someone elected president.

The important thing is how this all gets turned into power. This seems to be the obvious answer to this question. People can communicate like crazy, but when and how does that have an effect on institutions of power? What are the exchange rates, points of intersection? Can Bill Gates get himself elected president? I don't think so. Even Ross Perot couldn't do it. What I'd like to know more about is, how does it add people together in real ways?

Obviously, things have changed a lot in the last 20 years, and it's Zuckerburg being put in focus rather than Gates, with social media providing that fundamental "real people" element.

And I'm almost glad he was wrong, because that means there's more room for new scholars to work with.

edited 12th Nov '16 6:43:11 PM by Eschaton

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154432: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:40:50 PM

Depending on how large the margin is it would serve as a bigger example of the EC going against the will of the people, if you want to get that discussion rolling.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#154433: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:43:16 PM

How much in percentage? Anyway this talk about social media, misleading propaganda, and echo chambers is eerily reminiscent of the AI Colonel's speech in MGS 2 by the way.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154434: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:46:03 PM

That game is the sauce. It's only becoming more and more relevant as time goes on.

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154435: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:51:53 PM

But thanks to the EC, it doesn't matter how narrowly you win a state by, you get all of that state's votes, unless it's two states. It doesn't matter how many more people like Clinton more than Trump in California, if she's going to get that state anyway.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#154436: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:58:33 PM

Unless it's Maine or Nebraska, which award some of their votes via district.

Which wouldn't matter in this case. But, y'know, it's a way the system can be improved without overhauling it completely.

But- a bunch more votes in states like NY and Cali might not overturn the result, but it would derail narratives about Hillary being a weak candidate who couldn't get people to vote for her, as well as robbing Trump of legitimacy he desperately needs.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154437: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:00:39 PM

I recall one of my history teachers defending the EC once. I don't remember what he said, exactly, since this was almost 9 years ago, but he did mention that compared to Brazil (where I live), the US has had a lot more political stability in its regime despite the EC. On that front he isn't wrong, because you guys have never been in a dictatorship as far as I know. We've had at least two.

He was a pretty intelligent, knowledgeable guy in most areas, but I can't help but feel he'd have to eat a lot of crow depending on how Trump acts in the presidency.

edited 12th Nov '16 7:03:49 PM by Draghinazzo

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#154438: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:02:34 PM

In regards to Calexit. I really hope that doesn't happen. If it does then any future Democrats are going to lose an incredibly large chunk of EC votes.

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154439: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:02:44 PM

Yep, proportionally awarding votes according to proportion of the population of the state that voted would work better instead of winner take all. Encourage Republicans to vote in blue states and vice versa, and encouraging more people to vote can only be a good thing.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#154440: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:06:06 PM

I think the reasoning fo Brazil's more "fragile" democracy have nothing to do with Electoral College and have more complex, strange historical reasons.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#154441: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:10:11 PM

The west coast leaving the US would be a bad idea for a wide variety of reasons. Which should be obvious.

But, even though I brought it up- the thing about awarding votes proportionally is that it would probably take a state-level referendum to change that, which ensures that the people with political motivation to want the change are always going to be the people who currently don't have the votes to achieve it.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#154442: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:10:28 PM

Social media: While I'm reluctant to finger social media as the reason for a Trump election, it has enabled the false equivalencies and continued spreading of points refuted a thousand times that have been especially noticeable with this US election. It's a Gish Gallop writ large, as instead of one man attempting to overwhelm their opponent with a barrage of lies and gibberish, it's thousands of people, pages and their converts spreading them like a disinformation pyramid scheme.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#154443: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:14:16 PM

Social media's refusal to curb shocking racism is indeed a problem.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154444: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:15:31 PM

@Canada getting the West Coast, a few reporters suggesting it doesn't count as an "invite".

Personally, I'm very opposed to such an idea. I don't want to become a minority (in the civic/national identity sense, not the racial sense. Letting those states into Canada would mean that there would be more Americans than Canadians here) in my own country, we'd be instantly dominated by Americans. And I do not see that many Americans, even West Coast Americans, integrating into Canada that well. Especially when they'd be well over 50% of the population.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#154445: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:16:51 PM

Brazil doesn't have much for checks and balances like the US does, given how our Judiciary has almost no power and the Legislative can effectively control the country with the Executive branch, means one a party gets a majority in the congress and senate and elect a president, this means the country is effectively theirs.

Which is something that is potentially close to happen since the Reps have control of nearly all branches of the government.

[up][up]Don't even mention it, I've come across a bunch of Neo-Nazi pages after checking the profile or Nazi apologists spamming some of the science and history pages I like to keep tabs with and their neo-nazi group pages are still there after I filed hate speech complaints.

edited 12th Nov '16 7:19:20 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154446: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:18:20 PM

In reference to the previous page: yes Dubya did spend a lot of time in Texas. But he wasn't splitting literally half his time between the ranch and the White House. When he was in Texas he was there for significant chunks of time that made keeping security up fairly easy, and he did indeed spend most of his eight years at the White House. Like a normal president does. What Trump was apparently suggesting is that he could somehow just go back and forth throughout the week as he wanted. Someone is going to have to disabuse him of that notion.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154447: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:19:37 PM

Its like Trump thought this would be a cool, part-time retirement gig and not the most stressful and demanding job on the planet.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154448: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:20:02 PM

Well, if Trump's even considering doing that in the first place, taking way too many vacation days, it seems very likely Pence is the one who will really be running things.

And, yes, I think Trump wanted to win and he liked having the rallies, but he doesn't want to do the job itself.

edited 12th Nov '16 7:20:39 PM by dysphere

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#154449: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:21:01 PM

In regards to Calexit. I really hope that doesn't happen. If it does then any future Democrats are going to lose an incredibly large chunk of EC votes.

My state didn't vote for Trump. We overwhelmingly supported Hillary. We shouldn't suffer for it.

Maybe we'll make her president of California. : p

Besides it's frustrating that we contribute more to the US than we get out of it and yet our vote is worth 3 times less than a vote from Wyoming.

edited 12th Nov '16 7:21:19 PM by MadSkillz

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#154450: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:23:02 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Basically what only sets Facebook off is a glimpse of the female nipple. The less said about that fake charity site that used Gorn in an ad the better.

Trump wanting to stay in Trump Tower: Any estimates on what refitting the place for secure comms, improved security and the likes will cost? Sure, there's always digging into the affinity fraud piggy bank, but what happens to his business empire from here is still a big question. If there's one thing we know now businesspeople's evaluations of Trump are a bit different from that of the US populace.

edited 12th Nov '16 7:24:10 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

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