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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#154301: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:31:27 AM

What Trump does or doesn't do is a topic for next year. But Trump is not what I am afraid of. It is the mind-set which allowed him to assume a seat of power.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#154302: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:31:38 AM

A Los Angeles area substitute teacher has been fired after a student recorded him taunting Latino sixth graders about the election of Donald Trump, telling them their parents were going to be deported, reports NBC 4.

According to Jennifer Reynaga, she expected Latino students to be harassed after the election of Trump who made bashing immigrants,and Mexicans in particular, a cornerstone of his campaign.

“I would think the kids would do it, but I never thought a teacher would do it,” said Reynaga said in an interview.

The Reynaga family turned over the recording, captured with another student’s cellphone, to the school district where the unidentified substitute physical education teacher can be heard speaking to students at Bret Harte Middle School in South Los Angeles.

“If you were born here, then your parents got to go. Then they will leave you behind, and you will be in foster care,” the teacher can be heard telling Reynaga’s 11-year-old daughter.

When the sixth grader asked how Trump would find them, the teacher replied, “I have your phone numbers, your address, your mama’s address, your daddy’s address. It’s all in the system, sweetie.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/busted-teacher-caught-taunting-students-their-parents-will-be-deported-now-that-trump-is-president/

Tell me more about the so called "economic anxiety" among Trump supporters

New Survey coming this weekend!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154303: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:33:52 AM

To be fair, the economic anxiety did seem to be a thing. It's just not really separate from racism since a lot of the people in the rust belt, even if not overtly bigoted probably don't care that much about nonwhite people since they haven't met that many and their idealized version of America doesn't include them.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#154304: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:34:28 AM

What should we be saying to get their support, Capsace?

"Of course coal isn't dying as an industry! We can save those jobs and keep you from modernizing! We don't care about minorities, don't worry! They can fend for themselves. We know you hate welfare, so we'll get rid of it right away!"

These people have desires that are the complete opposite of progress. Stopping to try and pull them from the mud while they're adamant about staying put is suicide. We shouldn't abandon "identity politics" in favor of them.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154305: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:35:35 AM

[up][up][up] Trump outperformed Romney with all minorities, so I think there definitely is some very real economic anxiety motivating some of Trump's supporters. There's clear xenophobia behind others, and I'd imagine the bulk of them are motivated by both to varying degrees. The things that drive people to the polls are rarely as simple as just "racism" or "economic anxiety."

[up] Sanders stump speech about people working longer hours for lower wages is a good thing. Not committing to future trade deals is another (the economic benefits aren't that significant, they contribute to growing wealth inequality, and they're definitely harming this particular demographic's way of life). There's no need to completely abandon identity politics, we just need to let these people know that there's something in it for them as well.

edited 12th Nov '16 9:38:47 AM by CaptainCapsase

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#154306: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:35:38 AM

[up]x4 ...

That teacher was a fucking minority. A minority. And she had the GALL to tell her fellow minorities that their parents should be and probably will be (which I don't believe on either count by the way,) deported? It's bad enough for a white person to do it, but this takes it to a whole other level.

edited 12th Nov '16 9:35:55 AM by kkhohoho

SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#154307: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:36:07 AM

A poll from Wall Street Journal gave some curious results.

Dead link: Basically, only 17% of his supporters mention immigration as a reason why they picked him, most complain more about trade (Believing it takes away jobs more than immigration) and 70% say the reason why they picked him was because they wanted "Change".

Edit

Here is a direct link to the piece.

edited 12th Nov '16 9:44:07 AM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#154308: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:43:51 AM

[up][up] Turning minorities against one another is a tried and true way to ensure that the white majority can forever hold onto power.

Anyway, I agree that hate groups like KKK and Neo-Nazis aren't the real danger because they are obvious. This election has shown that the hatred that powers such groups is much stronger than we assumed and heavily infests the country. Especially with the rise of all the ideals of said groups in the name of the "Alt-Right" which, unlike them, doesn't have nearly the same stigma to prevent them getting normalized and now has the ear of a narcissistic imbecile running the most powerful nation on Earth. This is what will really result in us being knocked back heavily as the rest of the GOP does their damndest to secure the outsized influence of easily lead rural whites and suppress everyone else even more.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#154309: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:44:02 AM

If they wanted change this might be the most impressive Con in US history

New Survey coming this weekend!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#154310: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:44:35 AM

[up][up][up] 70% of people said they want change as the most important reason for voting for Trump...

What we don't know from that excerpt is whether those 70% all defined 'change' the same way.

By the way, it's not a dead link, you just have to remove everything after the last number digit (from /photo/ onwards) to get the link to work.

edited 12th Nov '16 9:46:34 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#154312: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:50:55 AM

A teacher in California isn't exactly the economic anxiety group we were talking about, we're talking about the Rust Belt union workers.

As for what we should say to win over the Rust Belt workers, how about "we get that you're hurting and you've been ignored to long, you need jobs and you need investment, we have the make the reovery work for everyone not just people in the cities. We are going change how the system works and start taking care of you the way we should be".

@Cap, remember Trump's minority numbers may be inflated, Clinton got a lot less votes than Obama, so it may just be that minorities abandoned Clinton instead of going to Trump.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#154313: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:55:15 AM

The thing to remember is that when people say they want "change", they arnt talking about social progress. They mean they want things to go back to the way they once were. In fact, what they really want is for Washington to stop facilitating change.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154314: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:56:56 AM

Remember that Hillary was very unpopular. It isn't really surprising that minorities would buy into the climate of voter apathy and just not show up to vote.

Even with that Hillary managed to win the popular vote regardless, which makes me suspect that if it had been another candidate we might not have been in the same situation. I'm not saying that to inspire a discussion on "what-ifs" but it's important to have a nuanced diagnosis of what happened so that this doesn't happen again going forward.

edited 12th Nov '16 9:58:39 AM by Draghinazzo

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#154315: Nov 12th 2016 at 9:58:56 AM

People in the rust belt will never be happy until they come to their senses. These are the types who refuse to move forward and accept that their way of life is no longer feasible. When they realize that, we can offer them help. But right now it's pointless, because all they want is to go into their coal mines and destroy their lungs.

You can't help someone if they don't want help, and right now the ones who actually want to work towards bettering themselves are minorities.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#154316: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:01:01 AM

For heaven's sake this election was about everything BUT economics.

Reality check: there are minorities in the lower middle class. There are minorities hurt by trade. There are minorities who were severely hurt by the recession. There are minorities who are drowning in debt. There are minorities who are fed up with working hard and going in circles. There are minorities wondering how they are going to afford school uniforms for their kids. There are minorities who had to shutter their businesses and sell their homes. There are minorities who just want to get back to work. There are minorities who are suffering, often to a greater degree than their white counterparts.

And by and large, those minorities did not vote for a racist, hateful, lying, moronic, warmongering, despicable demagogue.

This election was not about economics.

Jesus, this was my fear, that the center-left and left would take the wrong lessons from this election, and not be fucking honest with themselves and would absolutely REFUSE to believe that are a sizable portion of America that are completely bigoted, racist pieces of shit, despite the overwhelming, mountains of evidence collected over the past 16 months (really, US history, but I'll be generous.)

New Survey coming this weekend!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154317: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:09:06 AM

Even if we know that a lot of americans are bigoted and xenophobic how exactly does that help with things going forward? Should the Dems just keep losing in places like the Rust Belt or what?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154318: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:17:24 AM

Senator Bernie Sanders on where the democrats go from here.

@Tactical and @smokeycut: Playing the part of the Doomed Moral Victor will accomplish nothing besides satisfying your personal pride. I came to terms with that after the outcome of the primaries, now it's your turn.

edited 12th Nov '16 10:23:37 AM by CaptainCapsase

Gault Laugh and grow dank! from beyond the kingdom Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
Laugh and grow dank!
#154319: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:19:31 AM

[up][up][up] This is the disagreement I described on the page before last. And I have to echo [up][up]Draghniazzo's concerns here. If people on the left are hesitant to make that admission, it is because this is a line that cannot be un-crossed.

If we commit to the paradigm that a large chunk of Americans are simply hateful and bigoted, full-stop, the problem is no longer, "How do we tailor our message to best reach these people?" because we've admitted we believe that they are simply immoral, self-serving people who will never agree with us. The problem then becomes, "How do we stop these people from voting?"

I don't think I have to tell you what the problem with this is.

edited 12th Nov '16 10:20:33 AM by Gault

yey
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#154320: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:26:30 AM

I never said we don't try to reach those people. My issue is the framing it as solely an economic issue which is what's been thrown around here and among other forums.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#154321: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:27:29 AM

The people who voted for change don't know what they want, they don't actually want anything specific, just for things to get better.

Look guys simple question, if we don't try and win over economically anxious voters what do we do? Pray that turnout goes up? Wait 20 years for the demographic change to hit in full force? Try and win over the racist KKK voters? Try and win over the religious right? Keep loosing presidential elections until the SC is so stacked with nutjobs that Roe Vs Wade and Gay Marruge are overturned?

We lost and we need to start winning, we have to win somebody new over to win again and I'll be dammed if I want the Democrats appealing the the KKK or the Religious Right, that leaves us with the Anxious Middle Classes who vote against their own self interest.

[up] For thouse voters it was only about economics, they were far from Trump's only supporters but they're the only ones I actually want us to win over.

edited 12th Nov '16 10:29:38 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#154322: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:28:47 AM

What is Roe vs Wade, specifically? I see it featured in this thread a lot, but I don't admittedly know what's that.

Also, does Paris Hilton really want to try for President? (according to that link)

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154323: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:30:53 AM

[up] Abortion being legal in all states.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#154324: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:32:20 AM

It's a Supreme Court ruling that made abortions legal.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#154325: Nov 12th 2016 at 10:33:00 AM

The "economically anxious" voters and the "racist bigot" voters are, in many cases, the same people. Pretending they are only one and not the other will not help.


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