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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#154251: Nov 11th 2016 at 11:18:12 PM

Then we'll need to do everything we can to delegitimize it, whatever that might be.

Oh God! Natural light!
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#154253: Nov 11th 2016 at 11:42:36 PM

[up] ...Much as I enjoy the idea of them devouring each other, what would that mean for America? Nothing good I imagine.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#154254: Nov 12th 2016 at 12:02:46 AM

If this blows up big enough hopefully it may lead to the electoral college deciding to vote against them because they believe the current administration's infighting renders them literally incapable of actually governing the country. Like, not just in an ideological sense. I mean at all.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#154255: Nov 12th 2016 at 12:08:34 AM

Like that's ever bothered Republicans before. This is something I completely expected.

Trump was running a campaign of cannibals, each and every one of them with a history of looking out for only themselves, and lo and behold they are on track to devour each other.

For the record, "Campaign of Cannibals," as well as "Cabinet of Cannibals," are reserved for my future book on this "administration."

edited 12th Nov '16 12:09:44 AM by Eschaton

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#154256: Nov 12th 2016 at 12:13:01 AM

How is the electoral college hired anyway?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#154257: Nov 12th 2016 at 12:36:49 AM

Yeah, I was wondering that too.

Also, I'm half-surprised half-unsurprised that the anti-Trump protests are still raging. Has anything of note happened concerning them? Counter-rallies by Trumpets, for example? Outbreaks of violence between anti-Trump and Trumpets?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#154258: Nov 12th 2016 at 12:38:24 AM

Yeah, 5 dead from a shooting not too long ago. Someone opened fire at an Anti-Trump protest.

Oh really when?
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#154259: Nov 12th 2016 at 12:43:28 AM

[up]Didn't the local PD state that it was due to some other dispute that happened to be near the protest? Or was that some other incident?

I'm also hearing rumors of a hit and run on someone with an anti-Trump sign, but I can't track down any sources.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#154260: Nov 12th 2016 at 1:25:51 AM

Ooh, I do love me some Nazi Internal Politics.

Please, all of you in the Trump administration, be extremely unfriendly to one another. Its only fun for me when you guys fight amongst yourselves for who's the right kind of authoritarian.

edited 12th Nov '16 1:37:16 AM by NickTheSwing

Gault Laugh and grow dank! from beyond the kingdom Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
Laugh and grow dank!
#154261: Nov 12th 2016 at 2:52:02 AM

I've been reading up on the result of this election and I'm a bit torn on one particular point. I'm hoping you good folks can help me work this out.

Even now, with the election having been concluded for only a matter of days. a huge amount of writing has bee produced in an attempt to explain Trump's victory, and I see two clear camps emerging around one central axis:

Are there two Americas?

One camp says yes. These people feel as if the only way to explain this election's result is by invoking America's extensive history of prejudice against women, racial minorities, etc. In their minds, Trump rose to power on a wave of xenophobia and racial animus, and his core cadre of supporters are those masses of heretofore unseen bigots and racists who had previously stayed out of the general election process because there had never before existed a viable candidate who properly reflected their bigotry and racism. In this model, there exist two separate groups of people within America whose beliefs are deeply contrary to one-another and are mutually irreconcilable, and this election's historic divisiveness has brought this real social divide into sharper contrast than it ever has been before.

This explanation is useful for partisan purposes, obviously, which makes me a bit suspicious given how badly the Democrats bungled this election. Still, it's a possibility I find somewhat compelling.

However, the other camp says no. It stakes a more materialist position, claiming that Trump's election is the product of this particular set of very unique political, social and economic circumstances and says nothing all that meaningful about the fundamental nature of the country or the people who inhabit it. What it does say something about is the general state of the country and the dysfunctional state of American democracy. There are no "two Americas", merely the same broken system that the American people have grown so tired of that they're willing to, out of desperation and impotent rage, put into power any kind of candidate that doesn't look like a business-as-usual politician- as evidenced by the equally unusual popularity of Bernie Sanders this election cycle.

Help me with this, please. I think this is an important question, and it's been gnawing at me for the last few days.

yey
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#154262: Nov 12th 2016 at 4:02:52 AM

Apparently RT has gone full tinfoil and is saying these protests are only happening because Soros is paying everyone involved and having them bussed in.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154263: Nov 12th 2016 at 4:13:52 AM

Man, when Soros bites it, who are they going to blame then?

Soros' ghost?

(Vox) The Progressive Wing is rallying behind Keith Ellison, a representative from Minnesota, for the new DNC party chair.

Of note, Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer (D-NY) has thrown his weight behind Elllison. Schumer is very much an Establishment Democrat, but he's also an oddball:

He makes it a job of his to visit all 62 counties of New York State each year, to keep in contact with his constituents. Which is the likely reason he's supporting Elllison. Like Sanders and Warren, he recognizes that a failure to keep in touch with the base and to excite voters is going to harm the party.

edited 12th Nov '16 4:26:55 AM by PotatoesRock

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#154264: Nov 12th 2016 at 4:55:55 AM

[up][up][up] I'd personally assume that it's a mix of both ideas.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#154265: Nov 12th 2016 at 4:56:41 AM

[up][up] Ellison seems good in theory, but can he really be wholly effective if he's also pulling double duty as a Congressman? Especially now, when the Democratic Congressmen are going to have to be extra vigilant?

Howard Dean may be too "establishment", but he at least would be able to put in his full time working for the DNC. And his strategy worked in the past.

edited 12th Nov '16 4:57:04 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#154266: Nov 12th 2016 at 5:07:25 AM

Meanwhile: Perhaps predicting the inevitable US refugee wave, CNN shares how to take a sauna in Finland.

Also, Sam Harris weighs in (whatever you might think of him):

At least partially expalins the view of people like Gen. Flynn.

edited 12th Nov '16 5:17:56 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#154267: Nov 12th 2016 at 5:38:45 AM

Another protester shot in Portland. Expected to pull through, thankfully.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154268: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:03:20 AM

@Gault: Both are correct.

The hate crimes and harrassment/bigotry that's happened after this election shows that a lot of people support Trump's xenophobic/racist/misogynistic rhetoric and may have been voting for him primarily because of those reasons. He has the support of the KKK and neo-nazis and other white supremacist groups have specifically said they were pleased with him because they thought he was softening the public up for their ideals.

However, while numerous the avowed and more malicious bigots are not the only ones who voted for Trump according to the diagnosis. Many of them were also rural and midwestern voters who were afraid for their future, because their professions and way of life are dying and they're facing an existential crisis. Racism and ignorance plays a part in that too though since the America they want to go back to isn't one that includes muslims/homosexuals/black people/latinos etc, mostly because they've never met any so taking rights from them or their mistreatment are abstract concepts for them. Hillary wasn't able to reach out to them enough to prevent Trump from winning Ohio/Michigan/etc.

What they don't realize is that the America they want to go back to isn't coming back no matter what politicians promise, and Trump of all people doesn't give a shit and neither does the GOP, the only thing the GOP cares about is pushing their bigotry and making themselves more powerful. By voting for him they have effectively only put the extinction of their lifestyle into acceleration.

Also, keep in mind that Clinton was a very unpopular candidate. She's been the target of a smear campaign that's lasted for over 2 decades and as such many people both on the right and left feel antipathy for her at best. Many people actually didn't particularly like Trump, but they disliked Clinton just as much if not more. To them she was not only "corrupt", but was just another part of the establishment that they weren't keen on dealing with anymore. This contributed to people voting for Trump because their priorities aren't in order (like because of stupid misinformation about her starting WW3 with Russia or other nonsense), or just abstaining from voting altogether.

It is not incorrect to say that there are two Americas, although that might be a bit too simplistic it is obvious that America is definitely divided. There was an article posted here talking about all the criticism Trump attracted made Trump supporters think they had a common enemy. There is an enormous gulfs in values, ideas, and lifestyle between say the midwest and somewhere like California or New York. Many Trump voters have no idea what people see in Hillary Clinton, and many Hillary Clinton voters are the same. People these days live in enclaves where we don't meet people too different from us, and while that's perhaps even more true for the rural/midwestern areas given they don't really meet anybody who's not white/straight, it's also true of many liberals seem to assume that stuff like social justice and a proper understanding of racism/sexism is more mainstream than it actually is. Too many people took it for granted that women would rally against a candidate espousing misogyny and completely underestimated the amount of Female Misogynists there was in the country since Hillary struggled to get 50% of the white woman vote.

However it is important to mention that Hillary won the popular vote so even though bigotry has been made mainstream a lot of America still doesn't approve of Trump.

edited 12th Nov '16 6:06:00 AM by Draghinazzo

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#154269: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:24:11 AM

You know what is funny? Like the cherry on the top of the irony cake?

One of the reasons why a lot of people voted for Trump was because if Hillary was elected she'd be a puppet of Soros, the Saudis, the fat cats in New York. The entire reasoning that they didn't want a puppet in the White House which would do the binding of interests groups controlling the US.

Somehow, just because Trump is a billionaire, he'd be immune to those interests. From how those events are unfolding, not only Trump failed to keep the power brokers, the lobbyists and the crooked politicians out of his cabinet but he also is set to leave them in charge of his government. With Trump only acting as a figurehead puppet whose strings are being pulled exactly by the people who represent the worse of the worst of corporate and big money America.

For all the noise they made over being screwed over by the government and they voted in everything that will go against their interests. They get what they deserve.

Apparently RT has gone full tinfoil and is saying these protests are only happening because Soros is paying everyone involved and having them bussed in.

Not just RT, all the Alt-Right websites and other right wing nutthead "news" websites have been claiming the bad elements in the Trump campaign were Soros/Clinton plants to make Trump look bad. Those people think the only reason why they are being opposed is because of CTR shills and paid shills to protests against Trump and his ilk.

edited 12th Nov '16 6:28:59 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#154270: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:31:11 AM

It's looking to me like the two most powerful people in Trump's organisation will be (or currently are) Pence and Kushner. Pence will have the power of the GOP behind him, but Kushner's the one with the business power, the ear of Trump and the one that seems to be frustrating the GOP political appointments right now.

I know people are nervous of Pence right now, but I'm thinking Kushner's a looming problem, too.

edited 12th Nov '16 6:32:47 AM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#154271: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:31:21 AM

I honestly do see the bigotry as the deciding factor in Trump's ascension. He ran his entire campaign on attacking every single Other he could without a hint of any coherent policy. He repulsed just about everyone except the white vote and they seem to have come in droves in order to re-establish the "rightful" order after "suffering" eight years of a black man in power and the threat of a woman getting in the white house.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#154272: Nov 12th 2016 at 6:48:00 AM

But I've also been told that they don't have to and they could very well appoint someone else (like Clinton). Is there any reason why they would do that? If so, what kind of results can be expected?
Technically, yes, the Electoral College voters could disregard the specific breakdown of their states, and all vote en masse for one candidate or the other. However, if they did that and put Hillary in charge, as much as those of us on the forums would breathe a sigh of relief, it would be a PR disaster for her and pretty much eliminate any legitimacy she had as President. It would guarantee she only made one term, and give Republicans a much better chance of winning 2020 as well.
half the internet is having you think gay pride centers are being attacked by stormtroopers!
No, I'm pretty sure the 501st Stormtrooper Legion would turn out to protect them.
Did people react this way to Dubya and his brand of incompetence?
No. Most people I know who voted against him were annoyed and disappointed that he won, but we weren't scared shitless.note  In hindsight, he was a mediocre President.
I vividly remember claims after the 2004 election that Dubya was going to abolish elections, put an end to presidential terms, and establish himself as Pope-King of America.
Really? I never heard anything like that. About Dubya. Obama OTOH ...
Honestly best case scenario now has Trump as Andrew jackson 2.0, ironically, sans, you know, the whole state sponsored genocide bit.
I was going to argue against this, and then realized that aside from the state sponsored genocide and the giant wheel of cheese, I honestly don't know what Jackson did during his presidency. ... Wait, does Trump getting elected mean now we're not going to replace him with Harriet Tubman on the $20?
Can't get more rigged than using the electoral college to change the decision of the people.
That's another one that's fun to debate as a hypothetical, because the "decision of the people" was pretty clearly "None of the above" rather than either candidate, but Hillary is still ahead by a significant margin. So if the EC did switch their votes to her, aren't they then truly responding to the will of the people (who voted)?
A large portion of Trump voters only voted for him because they liked Clinton even less than they liked him.

Is it possible that these people, now that Trump's won, might look at some of his promises and go "Actually, could you maybe not do those?"

You mean our Brexit voters? The "I didn't want this, I just wanted to protest vote!" types of people? Fuck those guys. You can protest vote by signing a stupid petition on whitehouse.gov. You vote for actual policy and actual leaders.
I'll be a bit surprised if Trump survives 4 years without facing serious impeachment/investigation problems.
The only way that will happen is if the Democrats sweep both houses of Congress in 2018, or if the GOP literally turns their back on Trump, neither of which I think are likely to happen.
For the record, "Campaign of Cannibals," as well as "Cabinet of Cannibals," are reserved for my future book on this "administration."
Does that mean I can call him the Ku Klux Klandidate?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#154273: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:01:04 AM

The only way that will happen is if the Democrats sweep both houses of Congress in 2018, or if the GOP literally turns their back on Trump, neither of which I think are likely to happen.
What if they decide to remove him because they would rather have Pence in charge? From what I hear, the infighting from the campaign is only continuing now. Or would they fear it hurts their 2020 chances?

Somehow, just because Trump is a billionaire, he'd be immune to those interests. From how those events are unfolding, not only Trump failed to keep the power brokers, the lobbyists and the crooked politicians out of his cabinet but he also is set to leave them in charge of his government. With Trump only acting as a figurehead puppet whose strings are being pulled exactly by the people who represent the worse of the worst of corporate and big money America.
What they don't realize is that the America they want to go back to isn't coming back no matter what politicians promise, and Trump of all people doesn't give a shit and neither does the GOP, the only thing the GOP cares about is pushing their bigotry and making themselves more powerful. By voting for him they have effectively only put the extinction of their lifestyle into acceleration.

Part of me thinks about things like this and says "Good. Have the non-openly bigoted Trump voters, and the people who didn't even bother to vote get a harsh wake up call over the next four years. Have them see all the broken promises, and the hatred coming from many of his supporters, and realize how badly they screwed up."

(also, in many cases the world that the Trump supporters and Brexit supporters want to return to never actually existed, or did not exist for them)

But there are people I care about who are in serious danger now. Heck, our environment is in even more danger than it was previously. And I'm realizing that the world I thought existed never really existed. Part of me just wants us to get through these next few years (and probably more) trying to mitigate as much of the damage as possible. Because there's a lot at stake.

To be fair, these aren't even mutually exclusive in a number of cases.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#154274: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:11:48 AM

Speaking of the KKK, I may have missed it if it was mentioned here already, but for those who are unaware, the KKK is actually planning on staging a Trump victory parade in North Carolina in a month.

Yeah, no, seriously.

It's probably the worst news we've seen yet out of this whole affair, but I don't think that Trump's election has normalized racism enough to let them get away with it, either. Actual racism still has to at least PRETEND to be about something else, like immigrants taking jobs or drug crime, to get mainstream support. The NC branch of the GOP and Trump have both already officially condemned and washed their hands of it, so we don't need to worry about the Republican establishment openly courting these kinds of extremists, thank God. A lot of Republican governing legitimacy still depends on maintaining the plausible deniability of the dog whistle.

I haven't heard about any similar events going on elsewhere in the country, so it seems like we can hope this is a one-time fluke. Hopefully people will respond with peaceful counter-protests and not violence, though it'd be hard to blame them if things got heated.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#154275: Nov 12th 2016 at 7:24:55 AM

Frankly, I'm less concerned about the KKK and the neo-Nazis and whatnot. Those are visible hate groups that prance around in public and draw attention from the real nastiness that's inside the Trump administration to-be.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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