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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#154201: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:00:43 PM

[up] But the cabinet will probably be.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154202: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:00:54 PM

It depends. From what I've gathered Trump has a big ego but he might not be a terribly difficult person to influence or manipulate. He's flip-flopped on a lot of positions during his campaign as it is, and people have already been speculating that he might be turning to Obama for advice on what to do since he's not really prepared for the presidency.

However, the republicans now also effectively control both the judicial and legislative branch I've been told so I expect a lot of horrible shit to get passed anyways because Trump doesn't really give a shit.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154203: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:05:01 PM

Tuning down how?

The House and Senate want to gut it.

Is he saying he might leave it alone? @ Rational Insanity

However, the republicans now also effectively control both the judicial and legislative branch I've been told so I expect a lot of horrible shit to get passed anyways because Trump doesn't really give a shit.
Keep in mind that the Judiciary has Roberts and Kennedy still, who are a pair of Centrist Corporate Judges. Replacing Scalia is either going to be another Scalia (i.e. the Firebrand) or Trump wedgies the Republicans again by dropping in another Centrist Corporate Judge.

It'll be jank but we haven't reached full Jank yet.

edited 11th Nov '16 7:09:04 PM by PotatoesRock

Ecrivan Amused Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Amused
#154204: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:05:30 PM

Well considering how he started doing that after actively having a discussion with Obama himself.....I guess it's possible? I mean to be brutally honest he comes across to me as the kind of man who does things just to make himself popular in anyway, an class clown in an old man's body to put it simply.

But Obama seems to be taking it upon himself to try to influence him positively so what we might see is a real life occurrence of the angel on one shoulder and the demon on the other. Pence and Obama both vying to puppeteer him.

Still there is always a threat of something going wrong as he isn't consistent and we know that those crusty old guys in the other branches are probably going to try to pull some shit.

edited 11th Nov '16 7:07:35 PM by Ecrivan

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154205: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:09:47 PM

The thing is he thinks the part about pre-existing conditions should stay, but does not seem to realize that means all the rest of will by necessity be required to stay the same. So yeah, he's changed his mind but seems as ill-informed as ever. As he flip flops multiple times a day, who the fuck knows. So yeah, he may have been influenced by his conversation with Obama, but he's also open to influence by literally everyone else in government who's going to want him on their side of the issues.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154206: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:10:51 PM

[up][up][up] Specifically he said that certain parts of Obamacare ("children being covered under their parents' insurance" and "ban on insurance denying coverage for pre-existing conditions") he likes and favors keeping.

Tbh I am not that sure if he really means it or not, to me Trump just feels like he says whatever he thinks will get a random group of people to like him at any given time. Since the other parts of the government want to get rid of Obamacare wholesale i'm not sure that it counts for much, except for the silver lining that Trump perhaps wasn't really that ardent about a lot of things he was saying.

edited 11th Nov '16 7:11:22 PM by Draghinazzo

Ecrivan Amused Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Amused
#154207: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:14:28 PM

So basically his wild car status is not any less of a potenial threat then. I did hear or read somewhere that he also had no issue with the transgender bathroom problem and that state governments are already putting that and many other progressive ideas in place.

So yeah who knows what is going to happen in these 4 years. All we can really do is make sure that the victims of bigotry are helped.....

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154208: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:16:39 PM

Yeah from what I understand Trump doesn't particularly hate LGBT people or anything, on that front he is much more mild compared to the racism and misogyny. However that doesn't matter too much because of Pence who absolutely loathes them and is determined to make their life hell however he can, and Trump definitely doesn't care enough to rein him in on that.

PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#154209: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:18:44 PM

So we basically got a fatter older ruder George Dubya who snarfs on Taco Bowls.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154211: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:30:13 PM

@MonsieurThenardier: Your assumption that ideology and policy actually matter in the slightest in an election is what got the GOP Trump. Educated voters have ideologies, but the bulk of the electorate is won and lost first by the perceived effectiveness of the incumbent party in the recent past, and secondly by the personal charisma of the person(s) running. Policy and ideology is largely totally irrelevant.

At least that's one school of political science on election dynamics, and after Trump's victory, I'm inclined to agree with that model.

@Drag: If anything, he's mildly pro-LGBT, seeing as he made a point about including them in his speech at the convention, and did a photo OP holding a LGBT pride flag. I have little doubt however he'll throw them under the bus for his own gain if the opportunity presents itself

edited 11th Nov '16 7:43:26 PM by CaptainCapsase

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154212: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:39:18 PM

I agree, and honestly it makes sense if you think about it.

Most people, regardless of whether they're americans or not, are largely concerned with their own day-to-day lives and not much else. Their jobs, their family, the media they like, their interpersonal relationships, their career, but the government? Not so much. How many americans do you think have a thorough understanding of how their government really works? Who have an at least passable knowledge of a presidential candidate's broad platform in an election season? Not that many, I bet. I can't even claim to have that sort of understanding myself, really. Many americans are probably single-issue voters at most.

Good soundbites and personal charisma on the other hand are things pretty much everyone can get behind no matter how informed they are, that's why they're desirable qualities for leaders to begin with. As long as it sounds convincing and they like the person saying it the actual facts don't really matter too much.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#154213: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:42:21 PM

I wonder...

A large portion of Trump voters only voted for him because they liked Clinton even less than they liked him.

Is it possible that these people, now that Trump's won, might look at some of his promises and go "Actually, could you maybe not do those?"

Presumably, such people wouldn't necessarily be in favor of, say, building the wall...

edited 11th Nov '16 7:43:11 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154214: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:46:35 PM

Earlier someone proposed that a lot of people might not have necessarily believed he would literally do that due to cynicism on campaign promises, and that it just meant harsher immigration and deportation policies.

edited 11th Nov '16 7:46:48 PM by Draghinazzo

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#154215: Nov 11th 2016 at 7:55:36 PM

And they do need to worry about getting re-elected.

If too many of Trump's supporters in this election consider him to have been way too extreme in the next...

Oh God! Natural light!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#154216: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:09:02 PM

For what it seen, Trump general policy is "Whatever the hell I think or feel at the moment", between and being REALLY good at doublethink(really, he is textbook example of that) make him really difficult to pin down.

I mean, hell he was a democrat some years ago and didnt have any issue with being friend with the clintons(even going so far to defend bill, saying all those women where ugly liars.

Now, what it really worry me is the idea that futures candidate dosent need to respect the political process because people like them, that is a dangerous precedent in politics

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154217: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:10:15 PM

So earlier someone (idr who it was) postulated that perhaps Trump's tenure would basically amount to Berlusconi's Italy.

The Economist finds that a plausible comparison.

When he began his political career, Mr Berlusconi was Italy’s richest man. Many of his supporters, like Mr Trump’s, hoped he could bring his Midas touch to the economy as a whole. Mr Berlusconi did nothing to disabuse them of that idea. He was re-elected in 2001 after a campaign in which he promised voters a new “economic miracle” and distributed a glossy account of his own inexorable rise to fortune and fame.

Yet his years in office were characterised by modest economic growth, interspersed with periods of stagnation and recession. By the end of his final term in 2011, Italians were poorer in real terms than they had been when he regained power ten years earlier. If there is a lesson for Americans to be drawn from the Berlusconi decade, it is that success as a businessman is no guarantee of the ability to manage an economy.

Where Mr Berlusconi did succeed was in passing copious volumes of legislation that favoured his own interests. By one count, his governments introduced more than 30 so-called ad personam laws that helped his businesses or shielded him from indictment or conviction by the prosecutors and judges who he argued were hounding him.

Mr Trump may not be able or willing to act similarly, but he may find it tempting to indulge in another form of personalisation that became a speciality of the Italian former prime minister: that of diplomacy. Mr Berlusconi was convinced he could foster Italy’s interests with the same deal-making skills that had made him rich. Never much at ease with his EU peers, he found his talents worked best with dictators like Muammar Qaddafi and the leaders of “illiberal democracies” such as Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Vladimir Putin.

It can be argued no real harm came of the man-to-man chats of which Mr Berlusconi was so fond. But it is one thing for the prime minister of Italy to cosy up to the Kremlin, and quite another for the American president to do so. After all, he is the man with his finger on the nuclear trigger.

So if Trump follows suit, we'll basically see him fail to live up to a lot of what he promised and just a bunch of legislation to benefit himself.

edited 11th Nov '16 8:10:53 PM by Draghinazzo

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154218: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:40:49 PM

To further the fact that Trump is going to use the Oval Office to commit fraud, he's handing his businesses over to his children (most presidents put stuff like that in blind trusts). The same children who are on his transition team.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/11/news/trump-transfers-business/index.html

I'll be a bit surprised if Trump survives 4 years without facing serious impeachment/investigation problems.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#154219: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:46:11 PM

And yet after the meeting with Obama, he's now also the Dem's best hope to prevent the GOP congress from dismantling everything Obama's built these last 8 years.....this election is the most mindboggling thing ever.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154220: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:47:20 PM

[up][up] He won't so long as the GOP controls congress.

edited 11th Nov '16 8:47:49 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154221: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:48:36 PM

If he's found to be a wannabe kleptocrat, I think the GOP might drop him like a sack of shit.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154222: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:49:13 PM

At least the Democrats can attempt to start taking back some control in 2018. Still, apparently Dems are mostly defending,so it might not be as helpful as we may think.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154223: Nov 11th 2016 at 8:54:36 PM

[up][up] Trumpknows how to identify and reward his keys to power, if nothing else.

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#154224: Nov 11th 2016 at 9:02:37 PM

[up]One wonders if and how he would do the "remove extraneous keys" part.

edited 11th Nov '16 9:03:05 PM by nightwyrm_zero

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#154225: Nov 11th 2016 at 9:09:22 PM

> #Drain The Swamp #Turn It Into A Septic Pool #Trump Pence 2016

edited 11th Nov '16 9:10:02 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges

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